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<div style="color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Hi,
<div>I guess I didn't realize you didn't have the gear off. The Service manual for the Model B styled tractor, in my opinion the best of all the service manuals.... shows removing the gear by using a punch on the end of the shaft. On my recent exploration on some Deere "BO" brakes, I had that the gear came off with a gentle tap, one I took off with a bearing puller, and two, I did like the Deere "B" service manual shows.... assembly in a vice (mine was actually some wood to kinda keep things in place), the nut loose, on enough to keep the punch off the edge of the shaft...and a big punch and big hammer. I used a little propane heat, just because that seems to help... and I was able to get the things loose with no damage. The end of the shaft that the punch goes on has a depression to keep from damaging the threads. </div>
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<div>Once you get the drum off, the conical head of the adjustment bolt will be in a little well. I used a little heat, then as it cooled, I put penetrating oil in the well, .... did that for 3-6 days... and pretty soon if you leave it overnight, you will see that the oil has run out around the bolt. The oil in the well was also helpful in freeing up the little adjustment pins. Be careful with those pins.... I haven't seen too many places to get them. </div>
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<div>If I get to my barn tomorrow, I may take some pictures of the service manual and my brake assemblies. </div>
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<div>Take care, John Maxwell</div>
<div>Ferndale CA<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:helvetica, arial;font-size:10pt;color:black;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: STEVE ALLEN <steveallen855@centurytel.net><br clear="none">
To: at <at@lists.antique-tractor.com><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Apr 13, 2020 1:40 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [AT] AT Digest, Vol 27, Issue 13<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Thanks heaps for the info, Dean; I really appreciate it.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">To clarify a couple things: <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Yes, I have the assembly off the tractor. I have the pedal off its shaft, and the pedal shaft is loose. However, the brakes are still stuck tight, and I still haven't got the gear on the big shaft off.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Will I be able to remove the shaft and drum once I get the gear off even with the adjuster stuck? With everything but the pedal shaft stuck tight still, I am not sure how I will get the main shaft/drum separated from the casting.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">You are saying (I think) that hitting the adjuster on the end will actually cause it to turn some when it starts breaking free?<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">The gear is on there tight: I am concerned about braking teeth as I use the gear puller. I obviously need to get a better quality one than the one I have. Any suggestions as to type? That's a thick gear on a heavy shaft!<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">And yes, you give good advice that I should just suspect everything needs to be done. Thing is, it is obvious somethings *have* been done. The new idle and high speed in the carb are some examples.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Anyway, I'll keep at it!<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">The "original" Steve Allen<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">----- Original Message -----Message: 2<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 22:30:17 -0700<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">From: <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">deanvp@att.net</a>><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">To: "'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group'"<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"> <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [AT] JD A Update; Quick Question<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <003b01d61154$9e97ec90$dbc7c5b0$@att.net><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">The wiring on a distributor is the same as a Wico C Magneto. Top goes to #1<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">cylinder on the flywheel side. Bottom wire to plug on pulley side.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Using jumper cables to start JD's is an exercise in futility. Put a good<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">battery in and make sure you have good short heavy cables and connections.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">All JD Two Cylinder tractors are Positive ground. Too much power is lost in<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">the cables and connections when using jumper cables which typically are not<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">a big enough gauge to begin with. <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I think with what you are finding I think it would be wise to just assume<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">everything is bad and assume nothing has been fixed recently or ever. That<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">will keep you from making incorrect assumptions that components should be<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">working. <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Now to the brakes. Do you have the brake ASSEMBLY OFF OF THE TRACOTR?<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Secondly do you have the brake shoes off and all the associated parts,<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">especially those that contact the adjuster. All components that contact the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">adjuster cone need to be removed before attempting to remove the adjuster<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">rod. When rotating the brake shaft do the pins slide back and forth that<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">apply pressure to the brake shoe? In my experience ever single component<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">of the whole brake assembly needs to be individually removed and cleaned up.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">But you are at least one step ahead in that the brake shaft turns that is a<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">big step forward. Removing the brake assembly from the tractor has tow<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">advantages. !,) there is less cast iron to heat up and 2.) It is easier to<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">work on. I've never been able to get the adjuster to turn just using the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">square end of the shaft without first hitting the square end with a BF<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">hammer while the brake casting is really hot for along time. Then once I<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">can see some movement from hitting the end of the adjusting shaft the I<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">start trying to turn the shaft. The square end is the same size as the shaft<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">so even with a pipe wrench the moment arm isn't very good on the shaft even<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">with a big pipe wrench. You might try to protect the square end of the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">shaft with a socket but even if the end get bunged up ii is easy to clean up<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">once you get it out. <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">So ok, you have the brake casting in the vice, remember now you have added<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">more metal mass to the brake assembly so it will take a lot of heat to get<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">hot enough. Heat the casting all around where the adjusting shaft goes<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">through the casting. Heat some more further out, then around the shaft<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">again, over and over, Then as rapidly as you can use the big hammer on then<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">of the adjuster shaft to see if you cant it to move. Then go back and go<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">through the whole heating process Again and repeat the big hammer routine.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">The only time you will be able to move the shaft is when it is hot. Once<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">you get movement just keep working the shaft trying to get penetrating oil<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">in there. I've never had good luck with melted wax but some swear by it.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Just simply heating and reheating multiple times will break the rust bond<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">and eventually it will come loose. It sometimes takes real brute force. If<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">you fail put it aside and try again another time. I have never failed but<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">some are worse than others. <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">The strange part will be when you do get everything apart and cleaned up<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">all the parts will be so lose you will wonder why they were stuck so tight<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">to begin with. I have started using anti-seize grease on the shafts that<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">go through the castings. It just seems to stick to stuff better than normal<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">grease. It sticks to anything it comes in contact with including you.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">What happens are the shafts and associated openings are vents to the outside<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">world and they tend to draw moisture from the outside world when the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">tractor heats up and cools AND of course if the tractor is left outside in<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">the elements they are the path for moisture to get inside the brake<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">assembly. So they rust up big time. On newer two cylinder tractors JD put<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">"O" rings around those shafts to block some of that potential for moisture<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">getting in. #1 rule is don't leave the tractor outside in the weather. <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Just remember you may have to be the meanest, baddest mechanic in the area<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">to break things loose. I have never broken a casting and I have run into a<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">few really bad ones. I tend to do several brake assemblies at a time<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">because then I remember exactly what has worked and not worked. Usually it<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">is more heat. It will not be fun until you get them loose then you will<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">feel a real sense of accomplishment. Anticipate severe cases of<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">frustration. Good Luck.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Dean VP<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Apache Junction, AZ<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">From: AT <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>> On Behalf Of STEVE ALLEN<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 8:59 PM<br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: [AT] JD A Update; Quick Question<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Fellows, here's an update on the A and a question.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">My son and I spent much of the afternoon of Easter Vigil working on the A.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">The battery is just about one step on a scale of 100 above dead, but I put<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">it in, and we made an attempt to start.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I put some gas in and opened up the valve on the sediment bowl, hooked up<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">the jumper cables to my pickup, turned on the key, gave him a bit of<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">throttle and choke, and hit the starter. He turns over, stiffly. That's<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">the battery, I'm sure. The starter sounds fine, just isn't getting good<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">oompf.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">No fire. I decided to reduce to load on the starter and opened the cylinder<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">cocks. The right side sprayed gas out in a stream. Well. obviously, the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">gas is running straight into the cylinder. Two things: the valve on the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">sediment bowl was leaking gas in even when it was closed, and the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">needle-and-seat were not stopping the gas in the carb bowl. I know the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">float is OK because I checked it. So I pulled the seat fitting out, and,<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">sure enough, the needle has a groove around it and no gasket under it. #1<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Next item on the purchase list: Needle and seat. The "new" shut-off valve<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">needs to be replaced, too: I can only get it to shut off and not drip by<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">really cranking down on it. The ancient one on my other A shuts off<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">reliably with just a little pressure. Of, course, the new one is metric in<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">its outer dimensions, so I can guess where it was made. #2 Next item on the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">purchase list: a higher quality shut-off valve for the sediment bowl.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Meanwhile, I had my son clean up the connections on the coil and the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">ignition switch. Pulled the coil wire off the coil, and the end was badly<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">corroded. When we tested for spark by pulling the right plug and grounding<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">it against a cleaned spot on the frame, we got one spark but only one. This<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">may be why. and when he tried to clean it, the metal contact broke. #3<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Next item on the purchase list: new coil wire. #4 next item, then I will<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">probably get a new set of points while I am at it. Oh, and a battery. #5.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Now, here's my question: I told my son to pull the plug wires of the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">distributor to see if their ends were OK. They are, but he can't remember<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">which one was on top and which the bottom. My other A has a mag, so I know<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">which ones go where on it, but I don't know about the distributor. Right or<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">left on top? Good lesson for him--and a reminder to me not to assume he<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">knows more than he does.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Anyway, we also spent a long time on the brake. I got the pedal off, and<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">the pedal shaft seems to be free, but the adjuster is still stuck tight. I<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">got that iron nice and orange (got a rental bottle of acetylene) but no dice<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">yet. I pulled the nut off the shaft and am working on the gear with a<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">puller. Crank down, whack the puller with a hammer, crank a little more. I<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">am leaving it under tension overnight. I am not sure that it is moving, but<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I keep at it.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I was hoping not to have to do the electrolysis because I will have to clean<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">up the machined surfaces very good very quickly to prevent a worse problem,<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">and I want to get the gear off first, if possible, but I am running out of<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">options.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">I was told when I bought this tractor that it ran recently and was gone<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">through by a feller that does quality work and really takes care of his<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">equipment. I begin to suspect that the story is embellished. . . . I<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">absolutely prefer JDs, but I almost wish I'd spent the money on the 8N the<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">guy in town has for sale. It runs.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Well, it's good experience for my son even if it frustrates me not to be<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">working WITH it yet but still working ON it.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">The "original" Steve Allen<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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