<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>AHHhhhhhhhhhh Youth............ I had some of that
once......... What happened to it???? When I start to work on a
tractor or truck, I get a magnet on a pole, and a "grabber" so I
can pick up the parts and wrenches I drop. Then I have to walk
around the tractor to get the magnet, or if I get 2, I always end
up with them both on the same side...!!!!<br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/26/2020 1:11 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:deanvp@att.net">deanvp@att.net</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:011701d5ec73$ff841ca0$fe8c55e0$@att.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Roboto;
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let’s hope we can discuss this again when
you reach my current age of 79 getting close to 80. It
doesn’t seem to matter what or how many tools I bring along
under, there is one that I need that isn’t with me. But….
Sometimes I’m laying on it though and don’t realize it. <span
style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span>
I now schedule my submarine trips around my wife’s schedule
so she can be my tool gopher when I’m down under. Makes things
a whole lot easier. It is amazing how quickly she is learning
the correct tool names that do not include nasty adjectives. <span
style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Apache Junction, AZ<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at@lists.antique-tractor.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are
not metric and a fairly simple tutorial<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As a matter of fact I turn 58 today, and
I maintain my physical fitness to the best of my ability, so
you're probably right in that regard. But sorry, I reject
the notion that bringing the wrong wrench is a
blood-pressure-raising event, and I stand fast by my
comment. This simply isn't an argument against the metric
system. Seriously, just bring several wrenches...<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SO<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:28 PM <<a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Steve,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">You
may not have reached the age where getting down and
under a vehicle and then getting back up is a major
effort. Having the wrong wrench when I get under
there is not a happy event. Should I give up DIY
wrenching? Not a chance as long as my body is still
warm. If I didn’t keep trying to do this stuff I
would have been 6’ under a long time ago, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dean
VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Apache
Junction, AZ<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old
tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">You
might want to re-think the whole DIY wrenching thing
if that's all it takes to get your blood pressure
up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">SO<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:13 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam
<<a href="mailto:tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It
was a evil plot to sell us another set of tools.
The proof is I still need two sets to service my
modern pickup.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div
id="gmail-m_5469930678955342265gmail-m_-2345801240008035631yMail_cursorElementTracker_1582634531805">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_5469930678955342265gmail-m_-2345801240008035631yMail_cursorElementTracker_1582634532373">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">It
sells a lot of blood pressure meds. Especially
when I crawl under the darn thing only to find
that one d@m bolt is metric causing a cussing
wrench throwing fit as I crawl back out to get
that evil metric wrench.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div
id="gmail-m_5469930678955342265gmail-m_-2345801240008035631ymail_android_signature">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Sent
from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Roboto",serif;color:#6D00F6">On Tue, Feb
25, 2020 at 3:40 AM, Thomas Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Roboto",serif;color:#6D00F6"><<a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid
#6D00F6 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
15.0pt;margin-top:7.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
> On 25 February 2020 at 17:12 John Hall
<<a href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Don't know why they couldn't change
pipe threads, after all the rest of <br>
> the planet uses 60 deg, not 55 for the
British threads. Can't really see <br>
> how it is simpler than what we use. I
mean how exactly do the Japanese <br>
> explain such? Never seen a German print
in inches either for that <br>
> matter. If metric is so much better,
then go all in I say.<br>
<br>
Well the rest of the world for a long time
was British or used British technology<br>
before Sellars came along with his 60º
thread form in the US. The US wasn't a great
exporter<br>
at the time, focusing more on internal
expansion & self-sufficiency<br>
> <br>
> You missed the part about leaving out
the bastard pipe threads, didn't <br>
> you? We did so much hydraulic work at
one point that all I stocked was <br>
> NPTF, it works for NPT. As you know,
NPT covers the vast majority, <br>
> while NPTF will cover the majority of
whats left. The scraps can be left <br>
> to those who specialize in oddities.<br>
> <br>
> Never needed an IH bearing that I
couldn't source from wherever. The <br>
> only roller bearing I ever needed that
was manufacture specific was the <br>
> plunger bearing on a New Holland baler.
Motion industries finally was <br>
> able to cross it, but I couldn't find
it any where else, not even <br>
> aftermarket ag parts. And the bearing
housing had to come from New <br>
> Holland, nothing even close. That set
up cost me close to $300<br>
> <br>
I think there is a slight time frame
difference in our work experience,<br>
My experience with Cat, IH, & AC was in
the 60s & 70 and included <br>
machinery built in the 50s. Cat & IH did
insist on bearings that were <br>
only Cat & IH inclusive, whereas AC
crawlers that used more Timken style<br>
bearings, could be sourced from any bearing
supply co. Five times cheaper<br>
than Cat Or IH equivalents.<br>
An interesting aside was that, rarely was
there a need for machining with<br>
AC, Cat or, IH as regards remedial repair of
parts. Good designs leave little<br>
room for improvement.<br>
<br>
> We have an entire section of bastard
taps at work, it has just as many <br>
> oddball metrics as it does english. It
all depends on the industries you <br>
> support as to what is in your tool
crib.<br>
><br>
Around here, its fruit and meat processing.
<br>
At the local Heinz cannery, all the peach
& pear lines were American sourced,<br>
and the makers delighted in shaft sizes like
1-7/16", 1-9/16" & 1-15/16"<br>
with ODs to match. Only source was the
manufacturer.<br>
Another delight was the spaghetti extruder,
it had a 50hp motor driving <br>
the extruder through reduction gears, every
every shaft was a nominal size +<br>
a 1/16" Guess where the bearings had to come
from. It had one bad design <br>
fault in that the heaviest reduction had no
hunting teeth, and it had some<br>
very bad wear patterns revealed on
dismantling, had a blank forged in
Australia,<br>
it was about 600mm with a 152mm face. :-)<br>
> <br>
> I've found that engineers don't always
make stuff weird so you have to <br>
> buy from them, its often so you don't
make a substitution that <br>
> compromises the design. But there are
some that need a plate glass <br>
> stomach.....<br>
"Plate glass stomach"? <br>
Don't know that saying, although I have
modified modified maker's efforts<br>
for the better, when their designs were
found wanting. Flattering when they<br>
come up with the same improvement...<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
> <br>
> John<br>
> <br>
> On 2/24/2020 10:41 PM, Thomas Martin
wrote:<br>
> >> On 25 February 2020 at 15:17
John Hall <<a
href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> Fun fact. Did you know metric
pipe threads are actually in inches? They<br>
> >> are actually 55 deg threadform
(British Whitworth) but the pitch is in<br>
> >> metric. And the real fun part
is that the rest of the planet can't even<br>
> >> decide how to spec them on
drawing/print/blueprint. Different countries<br>
> >> have different designations
for the same thing. Off the top of my head,<br>
> >> I think there are a combined 7
different ways of designating metric pipe<br>
> >> threads (taper and straight),
as opposed to just 2. Now we won't split<br>
> >> hairs with short projection,
dryseal or other specialty threads--lets<br>
> >> stick to 99.999% of pipe
threads.<br>
> >><br>
> >> FWIW, I have 30 years in a
machine shop and have continually used both<br>
> >> english and metric without an
issue. Its the rest of the planet that<br>
> >> makes a big ordeal out of it,
we just grab a print and go with it.<br>
> >> English, German, Japanese--its
all the same--until we have to use<br>
> >> Translate Google to figure out
the notes.<br>
> >><br>
> >> One more fun fact. Next time
you need some roller bearings for your old<br>
> >> tractor and start measuring
them only to find they aren't exactly<br>
> >> english, convert them to
metric--you might ought to sit down first.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I won't even get into European
conduit threads--I've only had to do them<br>
> >> twice.<br>
> >><br>
> >> John Hall<br>
> >><br>
> > Well, John<br>
> > Europe did adopt BSP (British
Standard Pipe) threads<br>
> > back in the 19th century,
difficult to change horses now.<br>
> > Quite a simple setup compared to
the American system!<br>
> > Did you know that the US has 11
diffent derivatives of<br>
> > National Pipe threads?<br>
> > As for 11-1/2 tpi NPT, I bet many
a lathe manufacturer<br>
> > swore when Norton invented the
quick change gearbox for<br>
> > lathes and provision had to be
made for that.<br>
> > In fact would say I have cut more
peculiar threads of US<br>
> > origin that elsewhere.<br>
> > That goes for bearings also. Both
Caterpillar and IH used to<br>
> > get bearings, especially
taper-roller, ground to their<br>
> > specific sizes, so that only they
could supply, at a cost<br>
> > 5 to 10 times the cost of a
standard size! Extortionate!<br>
> > Competition finally forced them
into standardization in the finish.<br>
> > FMC was another who engaged in the
practice in another field.<br>
> ><br>
> > Tom<br>
> >
_______________________________________________<br>
> > AT mailing list<br>
> > <a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
> > <a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div
id="gmail-m_5469930678955342265gmail-m_-2345801240008035631yqtfd67726">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
> <br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
> AT mailing list<br>
> <a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
> <a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>