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Right on, Dean!!!!!<br>
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<div id="Signature"><font style="" face="Comic Sans MS">Mitch</font><font style="" face="Comic Sans MS"><br>
</font><font style="" face="Comic Sans MS">md31043@msn.com</font><br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> AT <at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com> on behalf of deanvp@att.net <deanvp@att.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 26, 2020 2:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' <at@lists.antique-tractor.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial</font>
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Steve,<br>
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Let’s hope we can discuss this again when you reach my current age of 79 getting close to 80. It doesn’t seem to matter what or how many tools I bring along under, there is one that I need that isn’t with me. But…. Sometimes I’m laying on it though and
don’t realize it. <span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span> I now schedule my submarine trips around my wife’s schedule so she can be my tool gopher when I’m down under. Makes things a whole lot easier. It is amazing how quickly she
is learning the correct tool names that do not include nasty adjectives. <span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">
😊</span></p>
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Dean VP</p>
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Apache Junction, AZ</p>
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<b>From:</b> AT <at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at@lists.antique-tractor.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial</p>
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As a matter of fact I turn 58 today, and I maintain my physical fitness to the best of my ability, so you're probably right in that regard. But sorry, I reject the notion that bringing the wrong wrench is a blood-pressure-raising event, and I stand fast by
my comment. This simply isn't an argument against the metric system. Seriously, just bring several wrenches...</p>
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SO</p>
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On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:28 PM <<a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net">deanvp@att.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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Steve, </p>
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You may not have reached the age where getting down and under a vehicle and then getting back up is a major effort. Having the wrong wrench when I get under there is not a happy event. Should I give up DIY wrenching? Not a chance as long as my body is still
warm. If I didn’t keep trying to do this stuff I would have been 6’ under a long time ago,
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Dean VP</p>
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Apache Junction, AZ</p>
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<b>From:</b> AT <<a href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <<a href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial</p>
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You might want to re-think the whole DIY wrenching thing if that's all it takes to get your blood pressure up.</p>
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SO</p>
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On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:13 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam <<a href="mailto:tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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It was a evil plot to sell us another set of tools. The proof is I still need two sets to service my modern pickup.</p>
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It sells a lot of blood pressure meds. Especially when I crawl under the darn thing only to find that one d@m bolt is metric causing a cussing wrench throwing fit as I crawl back out to get that evil metric wrench.</p>
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<span style="font-family:"Roboto",serif; color:#6D00F6">On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 3:40 AM, Thomas Martin</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Roboto",serif; color:#6D00F6"><<a href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz" target="_blank">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<br>
> On 25 February 2020 at 17:12 John Hall <<a href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com" target="_blank">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Don't know why they couldn't change pipe threads, after all the rest of <br>
> the planet uses 60 deg, not 55 for the British threads. Can't really see <br>
> how it is simpler than what we use. I mean how exactly do the Japanese <br>
> explain such? Never seen a German print in inches either for that <br>
> matter. If metric is so much better, then go all in I say.<br>
<br>
Well the rest of the world for a long time was British or used British technology<br>
before Sellars came along with his 60º thread form in the US. The US wasn't a great exporter<br>
at the time, focusing more on internal expansion & self-sufficiency<br>
> <br>
> You missed the part about leaving out the bastard pipe threads, didn't <br>
> you? We did so much hydraulic work at one point that all I stocked was <br>
> NPTF, it works for NPT. As you know, NPT covers the vast majority, <br>
> while NPTF will cover the majority of whats left. The scraps can be left <br>
> to those who specialize in oddities.<br>
> <br>
> Never needed an IH bearing that I couldn't source from wherever. The <br>
> only roller bearing I ever needed that was manufacture specific was the <br>
> plunger bearing on a New Holland baler. Motion industries finally was <br>
> able to cross it, but I couldn't find it any where else, not even <br>
> aftermarket ag parts. And the bearing housing had to come from New <br>
> Holland, nothing even close. That set up cost me close to $300<br>
> <br>
I think there is a slight time frame difference in our work experience,<br>
My experience with Cat, IH, & AC was in the 60s & 70 and included <br>
machinery built in the 50s. Cat & IH did insist on bearings that were <br>
only Cat & IH inclusive, whereas AC crawlers that used more Timken style<br>
bearings, could be sourced from any bearing supply co. Five times cheaper<br>
than Cat Or IH equivalents.<br>
An interesting aside was that, rarely was there a need for machining with<br>
AC, Cat or, IH as regards remedial repair of parts. Good designs leave little<br>
room for improvement.<br>
<br>
> We have an entire section of bastard taps at work, it has just as many <br>
> oddball metrics as it does english. It all depends on the industries you <br>
> support as to what is in your tool crib.<br>
><br>
Around here, its fruit and meat processing. <br>
At the local Heinz cannery, all the peach & pear lines were American sourced,<br>
and the makers delighted in shaft sizes like 1-7/16", 1-9/16" & 1-15/16"<br>
with ODs to match. Only source was the manufacturer.<br>
Another delight was the spaghetti extruder, it had a 50hp motor driving <br>
the extruder through reduction gears, every every shaft was a nominal size +<br>
a 1/16" Guess where the bearings had to come from. It had one bad design <br>
fault in that the heaviest reduction had no hunting teeth, and it had some<br>
very bad wear patterns revealed on dismantling, had a blank forged in Australia,<br>
it was about 600mm with a 152mm face. :-)<br>
> <br>
> I've found that engineers don't always make stuff weird so you have to <br>
> buy from them, its often so you don't make a substitution that <br>
> compromises the design. But there are some that need a plate glass <br>
> stomach.....<br>
"Plate glass stomach"? <br>
Don't know that saying, although I have modified modified maker's efforts<br>
for the better, when their designs were found wanting. Flattering when they<br>
come up with the same improvement...<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
> <br>
> John<br>
> <br>
> On 2/24/2020 10:41 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:<br>
> >> On 25 February 2020 at 15:17 John Hall <<a href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com" target="_blank">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> Fun fact. Did you know metric pipe threads are actually in inches? They<br>
> >> are actually 55 deg threadform (British Whitworth) but the pitch is in<br>
> >> metric. And the real fun part is that the rest of the planet can't even<br>
> >> decide how to spec them on drawing/print/blueprint. Different countries<br>
> >> have different designations for the same thing. Off the top of my head,<br>
> >> I think there are a combined 7 different ways of designating metric pipe<br>
> >> threads (taper and straight), as opposed to just 2. Now we won't split<br>
> >> hairs with short projection, dryseal or other specialty threads--lets<br>
> >> stick to 99.999% of pipe threads.<br>
> >><br>
> >> FWIW, I have 30 years in a machine shop and have continually used both<br>
> >> english and metric without an issue. Its the rest of the planet that<br>
> >> makes a big ordeal out of it, we just grab a print and go with it.<br>
> >> English, German, Japanese--its all the same--until we have to use<br>
> >> Translate Google to figure out the notes.<br>
> >><br>
> >> One more fun fact. Next time you need some roller bearings for your old<br>
> >> tractor and start measuring them only to find they aren't exactly<br>
> >> english, convert them to metric--you might ought to sit down first.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I won't even get into European conduit threads--I've only had to do them<br>
> >> twice.<br>
> >><br>
> >> John Hall<br>
> >><br>
> > Well, John<br>
> > Europe did adopt BSP (British Standard Pipe) threads<br>
> > back in the 19th century, difficult to change horses now.<br>
> > Quite a simple setup compared to the American system!<br>
> > Did you know that the US has 11 diffent derivatives of<br>
> > National Pipe threads?<br>
> > As for 11-1/2 tpi NPT, I bet many a lathe manufacturer<br>
> > swore when Norton invented the quick change gearbox for<br>
> > lathes and provision had to be made for that.<br>
> > In fact would say I have cut more peculiar threads of US<br>
> > origin that elsewhere.<br>
> > That goes for bearings also. Both Caterpillar and IH used to<br>
> > get bearings, especially taper-roller, ground to their<br>
> > specific sizes, so that only they could supply, at a cost<br>
> > 5 to 10 times the cost of a standard size! Extortionate!<br>
> > Competition finally forced them into standardization in the finish.<br>
> > FMC was another who engaged in the practice in another field.<br>
> ><br>
> > Tom<br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > AT mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">
http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a></p>
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