<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Roboto;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Steve, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You may not have reached the age where getting down and under a vehicle and then getting back up is a major effort. Having the wrong wrench when I get under there is not a happy event. Should I give up DIY wrenching? Not a chance as long as my body is still warm. If I didn’t keep trying to do this stuff I would have been 6’ under a long time ago, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Apache Junction, AZ<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> AT <at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:18 AM<br><b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at@lists.antique-tractor.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>You might want to re-think the whole DIY wrenching thing if that's all it takes to get your blood pressure up.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>SO<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:13 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam <<a href="mailto:tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net">tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>It was a evil plot to sell us another set of tools. The proof is I still need two sets to service my modern pickup.<o:p></o:p></p><div id="gmail-m_-2345801240008035631yMail_cursorElementTracker_1582634531805"><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="gmail-m_-2345801240008035631yMail_cursorElementTracker_1582634532373"><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>It sells a lot of blood pressure meds. Especially when I crawl under the darn thing only to find that one d@m bolt is metric causing a cussing wrench throwing fit as I crawl back out to get that evil metric wrench.<o:p></o:p></p><div id="gmail-m_-2345801240008035631ymail_android_signature"><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" target="_blank">Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:15.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Roboto;color:#6D00F6'>On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 3:40 AM, Thomas Martin<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Roboto;color:#6D00F6'><<a href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz" target="_blank">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid #6D00F6 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 15.0pt;margin-top:7.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><br>> On 25 February 2020 at 17:12 John Hall <<a href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com" target="_blank">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br>> <br>> <br>> Don't know why they couldn't change pipe threads, after all the rest of <br>> the planet uses 60 deg, not 55 for the British threads. Can't really see <br>> how it is simpler than what we use. I mean how exactly do the Japanese <br>> explain such? Never seen a German print in inches either for that <br>> matter. If metric is so much better, then go all in I say.<br><br>Well the rest of the world for a long time was British or used British technology<br>before Sellars came along with his 60º thread form in the US. The US wasn't a great exporter<br>at the time, focusing more on internal expansion & self-sufficiency<br>> <br>> You missed the part about leaving out the bastard pipe threads, didn't <br>> you? We did so much hydraulic work at one point that all I stocked was <br>> NPTF, it works for NPT. As you know, NPT covers the vast majority, <br>> while NPTF will cover the majority of whats left. The scraps can be left <br>> to those who specialize in oddities.<br>> <br>> Never needed an IH bearing that I couldn't source from wherever. The <br>> only roller bearing I ever needed that was manufacture specific was the <br>> plunger bearing on a New Holland baler. Motion industries finally was <br>> able to cross it, but I couldn't find it any where else, not even <br>> aftermarket ag parts. And the bearing housing had to come from New <br>> Holland, nothing even close. That set up cost me close to $300<br>> <br>I think there is a slight time frame difference in our work experience,<br>My experience with Cat, IH, & AC was in the 60s & 70 and included <br>machinery built in the 50s. Cat & IH did insist on bearings that were <br>only Cat & IH inclusive, whereas AC crawlers that used more Timken style<br>bearings, could be sourced from any bearing supply co. Five times cheaper<br>than Cat Or IH equivalents.<br>An interesting aside was that, rarely was there a need for machining with<br>AC, Cat or, IH as regards remedial repair of parts. Good designs leave little<br>room for improvement.<br><br>> We have an entire section of bastard taps at work, it has just as many <br>> oddball metrics as it does english. It all depends on the industries you <br>> support as to what is in your tool crib.<br>><br>Around here, its fruit and meat processing. <br>At the local Heinz cannery, all the peach & pear lines were American sourced,<br>and the makers delighted in shaft sizes like 1-7/16", 1-9/16" & 1-15/16"<br>with ODs to match. Only source was the manufacturer.<br>Another delight was the spaghetti extruder, it had a 50hp motor driving <br>the extruder through reduction gears, every every shaft was a nominal size +<br>a 1/16" Guess where the bearings had to come from. It had one bad design <br>fault in that the heaviest reduction had no hunting teeth, and it had some<br>very bad wear patterns revealed on dismantling, had a blank forged in Australia,<br>it was about 600mm with a 152mm face. :-)<br>> <br>> I've found that engineers don't always make stuff weird so you have to <br>> buy from them, its often so you don't make a substitution that <br>> compromises the design. But there are some that need a plate glass <br>> stomach.....<br>"Plate glass stomach"? <br>Don't know that saying, although I have modified modified maker's efforts<br>for the better, when their designs were found wanting. Flattering when they<br>come up with the same improvement...<br><br>Tom<br>> <br>> John<br>> <br>> On 2/24/2020 10:41 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:<br>> >> On 25 February 2020 at 15:17 John Hall <<a href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com" target="_blank">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Fun fact. Did you know metric pipe threads are actually in inches? They<br>> >> are actually 55 deg threadform (British Whitworth) but the pitch is in<br>> >> metric. And the real fun part is that the rest of the planet can't even<br>> >> decide how to spec them on drawing/print/blueprint. Different countries<br>> >> have different designations for the same thing. Off the top of my head,<br>> >> I think there are a combined 7 different ways of designating metric pipe<br>> >> threads (taper and straight), as opposed to just 2. Now we won't split<br>> >> hairs with short projection, dryseal or other specialty threads--lets<br>> >> stick to 99.999% of pipe threads.<br>> >><br>> >> FWIW, I have 30 years in a machine shop and have continually used both<br>> >> english and metric without an issue. Its the rest of the planet that<br>> >> makes a big ordeal out of it, we just grab a print and go with it.<br>> >> English, German, Japanese--its all the same--until we have to use<br>> >> Translate Google to figure out the notes.<br>> >><br>> >> One more fun fact. Next time you need some roller bearings for your old<br>> >> tractor and start measuring them only to find they aren't exactly<br>> >> english, convert them to metric--you might ought to sit down first.<br>> >><br>> >> I won't even get into European conduit threads--I've only had to do them<br>> >> twice.<br>> >><br>> >> John Hall<br>> >><br>> > Well, John<br>> > Europe did adopt BSP (British Standard Pipe) threads<br>> > back in the 19th century, difficult to change horses now.<br>> > Quite a simple setup compared to the American system!<br>> > Did you know that the US has 11 diffent derivatives of<br>> > National Pipe threads?<br>> > As for 11-1/2 tpi NPT, I bet many a lathe manufacturer<br>> > swore when Norton invented the quick change gearbox for<br>> > lathes and provision had to be made for that.<br>> > In fact would say I have cut more peculiar threads of US<br>> > origin that elsewhere.<br>> > That goes for bearings also. Both Caterpillar and IH used to<br>> > get bearings, especially taper-roller, ground to their<br>> > specific sizes, so that only they could supply, at a cost<br>> > 5 to 10 times the cost of a standard size! Extortionate!<br>> > Competition finally forced them into standardization in the finish.<br>> > FMC was another who engaged in the practice in another field.<br>> ><br>> > Tom<br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > AT mailing list<br>> > <a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>> > <a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><div id="gmail-m_-2345801240008035631yqtfd67726"><p class=MsoNormal><br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> AT mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>AT mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>AT mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>