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<p>Steve:</p>
<p>When I looked a the lamps there was no light seen. Maybe they
were still drawing current, The battery is still "hot"when shorted
across the terminals. I need to do something in the next 3 days
as I don't want these batteries to freeze. <br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/2020 8:18 AM, Stephen Offiler
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP6upcghb7iASjZpwz76q8oDampPQ_YTvsOZyRbfmGevO7Bv=A@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Mathematically correct, but bear in mind the entire
explanation is predicated upon your stated assumption, that both
6V and 12V lamps are rated at the same wattage. I agree, and in
fact I mentioned this myself, somewhere wayyyyy up there in this
thread. Also, if you have two of the 12V lamps in parallel
(which I believe Cecil mentioned back there at square One)
that's going to do the same thing, double the current draw.
Which option is easier depends on what you have laying around:
do you have a couple of 12V headlamps, or do you have a single
6V lamp that is rated a similar wattage as one of those?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SO</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:38
AM <<a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US">
<div class="gmail-m_-1681538846691093110WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Cecil,
let me try to explain why going to the 6v light helps
discharge the battery faster. I think your statement
of “…. would not discharge the battery” should really
be phrased as it takes too long to discharge the
battery. Lets assume that the 12V lamp and the 6 V
lamp are designed to produce 60 Watts. The 12V lamp
then uses 5 Amps but the 6V lamp uses 10 Amps to
produce the same power. So the resistance of the 6V
lamp will be half of the 12V lamp. Or looking at it
another way, the resistance of the 12V lamp is 2.5
ohms and the 6V lamp is 1.25 ohms. Now lets assume
the 12 V battery has been discharged to 1.25 volts and
needs to be pulled down further. The 12 V lamp will
only draw a ½ Amp and slowly draw less but the 6V lamp
will draw 1 Amp initially and slowly get less. The 6
Volt lamp will discharge the battery twice as fast at
this lower voltage which one could not do at the 12V
starting voltage because it would burn out the 6V
lamp. As the battery discharges a lower resistance is
needed to keep the discharge rate at a reasonable
rate. As the battery voltage drops the discharge rate
drops with it unless the attached resistance is lower.
A 12 V lamp would take much longer to fully discharge
the battery. That is why the 6V lamp is used after the
battery has dropped below 6V. Just plain old math.
It takes a really long time to get to a true “0” V.
It just takes longer with a 12V Lamp vs a 6V lamp. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Dean
VP</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Apache
Junction, AZ</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext"> AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Cecil Bearden<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 13, 2020 7:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Batteries charged
backwards.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>The problem I cannot understand is why, when I
connected 2 incandescent headlights in parallel to the
battery it would not discharge the battery completely.
My battery supplier told me to then use a 6 volt light.
I have seriously thought about just hooking both in
series and then using them as power for arc welding. A
welding rod would discharge them quickly and
completely. Welding can be done using batteries as
power... <br>
I charge my batteries outside for safety. These are
sealed batteries. <br>
Cecil</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/13/2020 8:28 AM, Stephen
Offiler wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not have ADD, although I
am starting to wonder what personal issues you
might have, Thomas. And no, the point of this
exercise is not to reverse the polarity, The
point is to make the best possible attempt to
recover two batteries that have been accidentally
reverse-charged. That involves much more than
reversing the polarity. There's a right way and a
lot of wrong ways to tackle each of the steps.
Discharge. Repolarize. Recharge.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 9:08
AM Thomas Martin <<a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Do you have ADD? The point of this exercise
is to reverse the polarity of a battery.</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On 13 February
2020 at 23:15 Stephen Offiler <<a
href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For some actual
information on lead-acid charging, try
this: </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery</a>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 13, 2020
at 3:49 AM Thomas Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote: </p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p>Hi Dean</p>
<p>After the dead battery is connected
to the charged 12v battery in
parallel, a battery charger is
connected, (the charged battery </p>
<p>is there only to dictate the
polarity), and charging can commence.
</p>
<p>Tom</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On 13
February 2020 at 20:41 <a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>
wrote: </p>
<div>
<p>Tom,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Could you explain this a little
further. If the current from the
jumper battery does not have any
effect(affect) on the dead battery
how does it charge it up?</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p>Dean VP</p>
<p>Apache Junction, AZ</p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid
rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in
0in">
<p><strong><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></strong>
AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<strong><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On
Behalf Of </span></strong>Thomas
Martin<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong>
Wednesday, February 12, 2020
12:47 PM<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</span></strong>
Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong>
Re: [AT] Batteries charged
backwards.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Stephen</p>
<p>Well it appears you do not
understand the difference between
connecting in series and parallel.</p>
<p>When you jump start a vehicle,
one connects in parallel, the
current from the jumper battery
does</p>
<p>not have any affect on the the
dead battery.</p>
<p>Tom.</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
13 February 2020 at 07:52
Stephen Offiler <<a
href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p>I wouldn't purposely put 50
amps into a totally dead
battery if I didn't have to,
but then we have the example
cited by others, the
jump-start. Who-knows how
many amps will flow; limited
only by the internal
resistance of the batteries
and the cables &
connections. I don't think
many people appreciate that
a jump-start is actually
sort of a hail-Mary
maneuver. If you didn't
need to get the
car/truck/tractor started
ASAP, the smart move is to
charge the battery slowly
and correctly. People are
going to chime in and say
"I've been jump-starting my
entire life and never had a
problem!" OK. Me too. But
the issue here is that it's
impossible to know how much
you might have shortened the
life of that battery by
hitting it with that big
uncontrolled amperage
surge. In Cecil Bearden's
case, he's not stuck in a
field or a parking lot or
whatever. He has the
opportunity to do it right.
And that definitely does NOT
include hitting it with a
giant surge.</p>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at
1:08 PM Thomas Martin <
<a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p>Surely US battery
chargers have adjustable
amperage?</p>
<p>I thought it was a
given that you wouldn't
put 50 amps into a dead
battery...</p>
<p>Tom</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
13 February 2020 at
03:14 Stephen Offiler
< <a
href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p>Hold on. A
completely dead 12V
battery connected to
a good 12V battery
is going to cause
very large current
to flow into the
dead one. This is
not a good idea.</p>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Wed, Feb 12,
2020 at 9:08 AM
< <a
href="mailto:szabelski@wildblue.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">szabelski@wildblue.net</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p>Cecil, <br>
<br>
I agree with
completely
discharging the
batteries and then
putting the
batteries in
parallel one at a
time with a good
12V battery. The
batteries will try
to equalize when
in parallel. When
you drain the
battery, take the
load off and let
the battery sit
for a while, then
put the load back
on and drain some
more. <br>
<br>
You should use a
battery charger
that has a trickle
charge feature.
This puts a full
charge into the
battery at first,
then drops down to
a small charge to
top the battery
off. You may have
to do this several
times and should
leave the charger
on for at least
one full day.
Don’t rush the
job. <br>
<br>
You can also check
that each cell is
good by taking a
reading between
each cell. A bad
cell will indicate
a lower charge
then the others.
Do this with every
recharge attempt
and note if you’re
making any
progress. <br>
<br>
Don’t know if
you’ve ever gone
on-line to look
for videos on
bringing dead
batteries back to
life, but their
are some that show
how to drain a
battery, rinse it
out, then refill
and recharge. They
appear to work out
quite well, but I
can’t swear by
them since I’ve
never done
anything like this
myself. <br>
<br>
Good luck! <br>
<br>
Carl <br>
----- Original
Message ----- <br>
From: Thomas
Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>> <br>
To: Antique
Tractor Email
Discussion Group
< <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>> <br>
Sent: Wed, 12 Feb
2020 00:24:36
-0500 (EST) <br>
Subject: Re: [AT]
Batteries charged
backwards. <br>
<br>
Hi Cecil <br>
I consulted a
very good friend
on the other-side
of the isle. <br>
Tony is
auto-electrician,
of vast car, truck
& tractor
experience. <br>
He says you MUST
discharge the
batteries,
separately with a
bulb. <br>
They need to
completely
discharged. No
measurable
voltage. <br>
Then one battery
at a time needs to
be placed in
parallel with
another <br>
fully charged 12v
battery, they then
need to be
connected to a 12v
<br>
charger... <br>
<br>
Tom <br>
<br>
> On 12
February 2020 at
15:31 Cecil
Bearden < <a
href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>> wrote: <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > I had 2
group 31 batteries
out of the tractor
that were
completely <br>
> > dead. I
hooked them up in
series and
connected my
24Vcharger to them
<br>
> > as It
was handy and I
wanted to charge
both. After a
couple of days I <br>
> > checked
them and found
that I had hooked
the charger
backwards. I <br>
> > hooked a
couple of
incandescent
headlights to
drain the battery,
but <br>
> > after 3
days they won't
light up the
headlights, but
they still have a
<br>
> > lot of
spark when shorted
with cables.. A
guy at my battery
shop said <br>
> > I should
hook up a 6volt
light to them and
use that to run
them <br>
> >
down.... At
$100/ea, I need to
try to save
these... <br>
> > Cecil <br>
>
_______________________________________________
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