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<p>Would the piston hit the valve if the valve sticks??<br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/19/2019 1:34 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:deanvp@att.net">deanvp@att.net</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:057601d56eb4$5501af00$ff050d00$@att.net">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">I just purchased a Parts GT235 JD Garden
Tractor that was advertised as needing a replacement engine
amongst other things. Had a really good 48” deck and really
good tires too. Has an 18HP Vanguard replacement Briggs and
Stratton engine in it. No compression on #1 Cylinder. Pulled
Tapped Cover, Intake valve not closing. Couldn’t pull it
closed. Removed head and the problem was a bent valve stem.
The push rods were not bent. Haven’t figured out how that
valve stem got bent. I have been told that if the Briggs
engine gets too hot the valve will stick and bend. How does a
valve stem get bent without bending the push rod. Sum Ting
Wong. Just a bad valve???<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a> <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Jim Becker<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 18, 2019 5:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at@lists.antique-tractor.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Statistics In Tractor
Manufacturing Was Bicycle Program<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Henry, do you
also find the rocker arm bracket bolt loose when the
push rods get bent? As Steve pointed out, it seems
unlikely that sticky valves would result in 2 bent
push rods at/near the same time. My knowledge of the
Kawasaki V-twin consists of what I read in this
thread. But I wonder if the failure mode is
overheating allowing the rocker arm bracket to get
loose, allowing the push rods to get loose and bend.
Maybe the fix is to add a bend-over tab type retainer
to the bolt.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jim Becker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
Stephen Offiler <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
Wednesday, September 18, 2019 3:44 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
Re: [AT] Statistics In Tractor Manufacturing Was
Bicycle Program<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Henry, is yours
is a Kawasaki V-twin? Are you just replacing the
bent pushrods? Based on the Internet chatter I've
read on the lawn forums, the root cause is sticky
valves, and the permanent solution is a new head
(comes complete with valve guides and seats) and new
valves. That's what I'm doing right now, reusing
only the valve springs, keepers, and rocker arms.
In my case, it wasn't even a question, because my
head gasket was blown, so that head is certainly
warped too. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">These engines
are sensitive to proper cooling airflow. Again
with the lawn forums, seems I'm far from the only
one who has had an overheat without realizing it.
Mostly it's grass clippings that cause the problem
although mine was mouse nest. People talk about
removing the shrouds every X hours to clean the
fins. Actually a really easy job. The bolt
holes in the main shroud are slots, you just
loosen the fasteners and pull it straight off.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">SO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On Tue, Sep
17, 2019 at 9:03 PM Henry Miller <<a
href="mailto:hank@millerfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">hank@millerfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I've
had the bent pushrod 3 times now in mine, it
has always been both, though I too can't
figure out why both should go at the same
time. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2443874424762000347sig11221025">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> Henry
Miller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <a
href="mailto:hank@millerfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">hank@millerfarm.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On Tue,
Sep 17, 2019, at 8:27 AM, Stephen Offiler
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
id="gmail-m_-2443874424762000347qt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mine
is a long story. All my stories are long
;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Gravely
zero-turn with 24HP Kawasaki V-twin. I
keep it maintained by the book, and use it
pretty hard but not abused. It ends up
being stored in places where mice are just
going to be present, no way to eradicate
them (and yes there are cats around).
Quite a while ago, could have been early
'18 or back even further in '17, I was
checking the air filter (which I do
roughly every 3-4 mows) and found it had a
huge hole chewed in it. That means I
probably ran the machine unfiltered a
couple times. Suspicious and worried, I
pulled the shrouds, and found the #1
cylinder fins just packed with
slow-roasted mouse-nest. Most likely, I
ran it a couple times with impaired
cooling on that cylinder, and it
overheated. I cleaned it all out and went
back to mowing. It ran well, plenty of
power, but I did notice an increase in oil
consumption. I wondered if that was the
overheating, or the ingestion of
unfiltered dusty air. I didn't really
feel like tearing it down so I just kept
running it. And, with an eye on oil
level, it did fine for 1-2 years, until
just recently. It coughed and started
running poorly. Drove it into the shop
and found #1 was barely warm; it was only
running on #2. Tore into #1 and found
both rods bent plus the bolt holding the
"Rocker arm bracket" was very loose. What
the internet tells me is that overheat
leads to sticky valves and when a valve
sticks the pushrod gets out of place and
bends. That sounds very plausible but
I'm still not sure how I bent BOTH of them
and how that loose rocker bracket
happened. Oh and the head gasket is blown
on that side, which probably explains the
increased oil consumption. I am replacing
the whole head, pushrods, valves, valve
seals, gaskets. Cost about $300 in parts
online. Waiting right now for parts to
arrive and the grass is still growing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">SO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On
Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 8:46 AM Cecil Bearden
<<a href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The
only time I bent a push rod was when I
over revved the engine. It was on a
292 Ford V-8 in an old 57 4wd F100. I
got stuck and had to give it the gas
to get out. I straightened the rod
out on an anvil and it i still
running...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cecil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On
9/17/2019 6:03 AM, Henry Miller wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">My
zero turn is in the shop with the
same bent pushrods issue. Second
time this summer. I'm thinking about
a different engine... I have the
replacement rods, but I found a
small spring by the valves that
doesn't come from anywhere obvious.
I'll have to tear into it more now
to see what else is wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-2443874424762000347qt-gmail-m_5249227966473923076sig11221025">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">--
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
Henry Miller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
<a
href="mailto:hank@millerfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">hank@millerfarm.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On
Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 3:51 PM,
Stephen Offiler wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
id="gmail-m_-2443874424762000347qt-gmail-m_5249227966473923076qt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mike
M - that just happened to me
yesterday! I've got a Gravely
zero-turn with Kawasaki V-twin
that bent a pushrod at 306
hours (known issue, easy-ish
fix). It is sitting right now
waiting for parts to arrive.
Yesterday, I was walking past
and happened to look down and
saw 600 and something hours on
the meter, which was odd but
didn't quite register until it
clicked over another tenth
digit while I was watching.
That happens once every 6
minutes, so I got real lucky
to see it. I guess the key
got bumped somehow during
disassembly Now, all the
service reminders are saying
"CHG NOW". I'm doing engine
oil and air filter now anyway,
but losing the service
reminder on the hydro units
bugs me. It added 337 hours
sitting still (divide by 24 to
see how long I've been waiting
for parts, and therefore how
long the grass is getting!).
Since I'm not likely to ever
sell this machine, I don't
really care that much about
the fake hours.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Steve
O.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On
Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:09 PM
Mike M <<a
href="mailto:meulenms@gmx.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">meulenms@gmx.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I
have a Scag zero turn that
I bought new, I put about
350 hours on it over the
course of several years.
When I parked it this last
fall, I accidentally left
the key on, so when I went
to start it this Spring I
had 3500 hours on it.
Fortunately my daughter
works at the dealer so I
was able to buy a new
one. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mike
M<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On
9/16/2019 2:42 PM, Spencer
Yost wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">New
tractors have hours
embedded in the
computer. Replacement
computers are easily
spotted by the metadata
in the computer. So
for approximately the
last 10-15 years we have
a reliable indicator of
usage or computer
replacement/tampering on
most models. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">However,
being able to obtain the
equipment and software
necessary to read the
computer is still a
sticking point and at
the heart of the right
to repair lawsuits going
around. These lawsuits
are extending to other
equipment and devices.
So farmers were actually
at the forefront of this
movement. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Ok
fine print for the
following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="gmail-m-2443874424762000347highlight"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">This is not a political
statement. </span></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I absolutely positively never
endorse any presidential
candidate publicly on
this list nor should the
following be construed
as support for the
candidates mentioned. <span
class="gmail-m-2443874424762000347highlight">I only add the following
statements and link as
a way to let y’all
know that our
frustrations with
equipment are being
heard by some. Ok
enough with the fine
print:</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Elizabeth
Warren added support for
the right to repair
movement as one of her
written policy planks -
T<span
class="gmail-m-2443874424762000347highlight">o
my knowledge the only
one but the movement
should grow to the
point candidates
probably won’t be able
to ignore it. </span>Here’s
Warren’s policy paper on
agriculture in general
but in that she
specifically mentions
right to repair:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="https://medium.com/@teamwarren/leveling-the-playing-field-for-americas-family-farmers-823d1994f067"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://medium.com/@teamwarren/leveling-the-playing-field-for-americas-family-farmers-823d1994f067</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I
am watching the right to
repair movement closely.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Spencer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-2443874424762000347qt-gmail-m_5249227966473923076qt-gmail-m_7420150113575157276AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
Sep 16, 2019, at
10:29 AM, Al Jones
<<a
href="mailto:farmallsupera1@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">farmallsupera1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">No. If your tachometer goes bad,
you get a new
one with 0000.0
hours. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 11:52 PM
Cecil Bearden
<<a
href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Probably
not, and the
mileage on the
title of an
auto or truck
is <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">nothing
that can be
relied on...
I used to be
able to tell
by the wear <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">on
floorboards,
rust, paint
scratches etc
if a trucks
mileage was <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">right.
Tractors are a
different
animal.
Usually just
change the
tires <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">and
if repainted,
change the
hoses and
belts, new
seat and cab
interior <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">and
it is a new
tractor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Cecil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
9/15/2019 8:36
PM, Jack
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
Tractors are
not titled.
Automobiles
and trucks
are. When you
sell an auto,
you record the
mileage at
time of sale
and your
signature. Is
it even
illegal to
alter the hour
meter on a
tractor?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
-----Original
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
From: AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
On Behalf Of
Cecil Bearden<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
Sent:
Saturday,
September 14,
2019 7:33 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
To: <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
Subject: Re:
[AT]
Statistics In
Tractor
Manufacturing
Was Bicycle
Program<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
The New
Holland Money
Pit is what it
is because
somewhere in
its history
the hour meter
was turned
back. New
tires were
installed and
it was made to
look like a 5
yr old tractor
with about 200
hrs per year.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
Cecil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
On 9/14/2019
10:26 AM,
James Peck
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
Some years ago
I did
participate in
an academic
Statistical
Quality
Control
course. Much
of the course
involved the
Weibull
Distribution.
If I remember
correctly, the
Weibull Curve
predicted the
lifespan of a
manufactured
assembly such
as a tractor.
It appears to
be a gift from
the
mathematicians.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weibull_distribution"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weibull_distribution</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
The same
distribution
probably
predicts that
Cecil’s New
Holland money
pit will
continue to be
so and will
suffer an
early demise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
[Stephen
Offiler] I
never took a
whole semester
of
Statistics.
Instead, we
had a course
called
Engineering
Experimentation,
which was
heavy on
experiment
design and
statistical
data
analysis.
That gave me a
very good
appreciation
for the
practical
application of
statistics.
Out in the
real world,
on-the-job
training
programs in
quality
control
principles in
manufacturing
(Deming,
Juran, Lean
Six Sigma)
continued to
solidify the
practical
applications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
[Cecil
Bearden]
Steve: I
nearly flunked
statistics I
only passed
because I was
a graduating
senior.
However, I did
flunk Rocks
& Clods
2124 and had
to find
another 4
hours to
graduate.
Then 35 years
later I retire
as a
Geotechnical
engineer
designing
foundations.
!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
[Stephen
Offiler] I'm
not sure if
that is an
interesting
statistic, or
simply
predictable
statistically.
All you just
said is that a
bell-curve
distribution
for 2-year
degrees
overlaps a
bell-curve
distribution
for 4-year
degrees.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
[ James Peck]
The
interesting
statistic is
that some
technical 2
year programs
have higher
starting
incomes than
many 4 year
degree
programs.
People who
complete such
a program can
later take a
2+2 program to
get a four
year degree if
they choose.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
AT mailing
list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
AT mailing
list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
AT mailing
list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">AT
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">AT
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">AT mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-2443874424762000347qt-gmail-m_5249227966473923076qt-gmail-m_7420150113575157276DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt" cellpadding="0"
border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt"
width="55">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"><a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img
style="width:.4791in;height:.302in"
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="46" height="29" border="0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt"
width="470">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:13.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.
<a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#4453EA">www.avast.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">AT
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">AT
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">AT mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">AT
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">AT
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
<hr width="100%" size="2" align="center"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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