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<p>Steve:</p>
<p>I would make a small wager that your rims would have been 50%
less if you could have ordered them before Fiat got so involved in
new holland. I am just not a fan of Fiat. After they bought out
Allis Chalmers construction equipment, parts were either
non-existent or platinum... Unfortunately I have a few pieces of
Allis construction equipment here. None are operable due to a
repair parts cost of over $2000. This is the reason I went to
Caterpillar. There are enough aftermarket parts available for
Cats. Cat tried to stop the aftermarket parts supply many years
ago by buying Surplus Tractor Parts of Fargo North Dakota. 3
years after buying them Caterpillar shutdown the facility and
scrapped all the machines in order to make everyone buy new
Caterpillar machines. It did not work as they planned. The
overseas manufacturers started supplying parts and small salvages
started up all over. I recently traded my old D6 8U series dozer
for a 112 grader. My old D6 had sat for about 10 years since I
parked it. We loaded it without it not running. The fellow I
traded with is a real mechanic. We dropped the dozer off at about
1pm Sunday and loaded the grader and headed home. He had the
dozer running before dark!!!!! I wish he was closer to my place,
we could have some great times with all of our toys. That trade
has turned out to be a great deal for both of us. I have another
112 grader, and also another friend in the brotherhood.....<br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>On 9/5/2019 4:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP6upciOBkg58oM3qiP18bbdJ3jeRKTFGq3gy+aGmCzxyVZ8kA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Dean:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My non-antique chore tractor is a Ford 1520, which is a
23hp 4x4 diesel built by Shibaura in Japan, 1995ish. Rear
tires are 13.6 x 16 R-3 turf. It has a loader. I got it used
in 1999 with 396 hours and calcium in the rears. Rims finally
rotted through last year. Got new tires from Simpletire dot
com at Cecil Bearden's suggestion. But it turned out that the
rims aren't common. Could not find a generic equivalent, and
I had to go to the CNH dealer (Messicks, in fact). The cost
was staggering (no fault of Messick's, it was the same or
higher everywhere else). I hate to say how much but it was
deep into four digits to get the tractor rolling again. So
apparently it held off the calcium for about 23 years assuming
the original owner had it delivered loaded. I'd like to
think I'm young enough (57) to see another 23 years on this
tractor and I chose to spend the money on the beet juice.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SO</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 12:36
AM <<a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div
class="m_594278638617031727m_9029371309236227337gmail-m_4276003905023876292WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have CC in my rear tires on my
Compact Tractor. Don’t like CC but it was in there
when I bought the tractor and I’ve only had one leak
in 20 plus years. The tractor would be completely
useless w/o it. As long as I have owned the tractor,
now over 20 years, I have tried to find compatible
rear wheel weights. No luck so far.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 4, 2019 4:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted tires or not???</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean, I recommend beet juice.
Yeah, people say it's expensive (a relative term).
On a little sub-compact utility tractor, it might
cost a couple or a few hundred bucks. It will
probably be comparable money to the cheapest
implement you've acquired. And the thing is, it's
an "implement" that you will use every single time
you run the tractor, and it's an "implement" you
don't have to install or remove (after the initial
installation of course).</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve O..</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 6:51 AM
Dean Vinson <<a
href="mailto:dean@vinsonfarm.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dean@vinsonfarm.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dean VP,
completely agree—the loader moves the COG
forward as you said, and rear weights move
it back rearward and downward as Steve had
said. Only quibble I’d add is that you may
have meant to say adding ballast in the rear
reduces “the relative proportion of” weight
on the front axle, not the absolute weight
on the front axle.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I’ve never
rolled a tractor but have a little
sub-compact utility tractor with a mower
deck and loader. I should get a rear
counterweight for the 3-point hitch (or an
implement, as you’ve done) for use with the
loader, but just having the mower deck on
helps a lot. (Although it can be in the way
sometimes, limiting the usefulness of the
loader). But without at least the mower
deck on, the loader is all but useless…
little tractor is just too tippy.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dean Vinson</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Saint Paris,
Ohio</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 4, 2019
2:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group' <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted tires or
not???</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steven</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is why I think adding
rear counter weight to a tractor with a loader
helps stability against roll-over.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">When a loader is added to a
tractor the COG moves forward. With a load in
the bucket it moves further forward almost
over the front axle causing less traction or
weight on the rear axle/tires. Note: adding
ballast in the rear reduces weight on the
front axle with more on the rear. Most of the
roll over stability comes from the rear
tires. One does not want the tractor
stability coming from a rotating WFE or a
NFE. The rear wheels need to have a dominate
role. This may be an intuitive response but I
think the physics will verify it. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 3, 2019 5:19
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion
Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted tires or
not???</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In 3-dimensional space,
the CG of a tractor is likely to be very
close to the center in terms of left-right;
closer to the rear in terms of front-back;
and some height from the ground. When you
add ballast to the tires it does not change
that left-right CG location (assuming you
add ballast equally to both rears), and
moves CG even farther to the rear and closer
to the ground. It is intuitively clear that
a tractor on the verge of a side rollover
will be aided by weight added to the uphill
side. But from a free body diagram
perspective, the difference comes from the
changes in CG rearward and downward.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at
7:56 AM Jim Becker <<a
href="mailto:mr.jebecker@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mr.jebecker@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The
added 500# on the high side has
more effect than the 500# on the
low side. It is farther away
horizontally from the bottom of
the low side rear tire (or the
magic triangle/trapezoid) and
thus has more leverage. As far
as it “having a greater effect
than any change in CG”, it is
the same thing. Looking at the
500# by itself is just selecting
one component of the CG to look
at (a valid way to look at it).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Adding
fluid to the tires definitely
lowers the CG. How much depends
on a bunch of factors, including
how tall the tires are, how high
the CG is to begin with and the
relative weight of the fluid vs.
the weight of the tractor. The
taller the tractor, the more
effect it has. When we first
started using mechanical grape
pickers (1960s), many of them
were built on a very high
clearance tractor (6 feet+ under
the axles). The things were
plenty heavy enough as
delivered, but everyone loaded
the tires to help the stability.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jim
Becker</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> Dennis
Johnson </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
Monday, September 02, 2019
5:46 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> Re:
[AT] weighted tires or
not???</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Static
rollover happens when the CG
moves outside of the pivot point
which is the bottom of the
downside tire (or tires of pivot
is against stop). As long as the
CG is “inside” of the down side
rear tire the vehicle will not
roll. As soon as the CG moves
outside of the pilot point the
unit will rollover. </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dynamic
rollover when turning at speed
changes things because it adds
centrifugal force to help
shove the CG sideways and make
the unit roll sooner.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">With
weighted tires, the downside
tire has an extra 500# outside
of the pivot point trying to
tip it, in addition to the
500# or the upside tire
holding it back. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dennis</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<div
id="m_594278638617031727m_9029371309236227337gmail-m_4276003905023876292gmail-m_8409509836083451211gmail-m_-5025098376517213717AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Sent
from my iPad</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><br>
On Sep 2, 2019, at 5:22 PM,
Howard Pletcher <<a
href="mailto:hrpletch@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">hrpletch@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Wouldn't
the extra 500# or so
holding the high side
down have a greater
effect than any change
in CG? It seems it
would be more stable.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Howard</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 5:54 PM Dennis
Johnson <<a
href="mailto:moscowengnr@outlook.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">moscowengnr@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in
5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The weighted tires would lower the
center of gravity
slightly. Assuming the
tires were 100% full
the CG of the added
fluid would be on the
axle CG. If less than
100%, then the CG
would be slightly
lower. The CG of most
tractors will be
slightly above the
axle center. Tractors
with offset final
drives would have CG a
little higher than
those with the final
drive in line with the
engine crankshaft.
Combining the CG of
the tires and tractor
would lower the
overall CG a little
bit, making the
tractor more stable.<br>
Adding low mounted
implements or weights
would change this.<br>
<br>
Dennis<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On Sep 2, 2019,
at 2:37 PM, John Hall
<<a
href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> All this talk
about wide front vs.
narrow front got me
wondering about
something else. Are
tractors with fluid
filled rears more
stable on hills or in
quick maneuvering on
uneven ground? The
reason I ask is that I
replaced the tires on
a IH utility tractor
we have had since new
(1972 454). It has
over 8,000 hrs and we
have always had
weighted tires on it.
Well I didn't have
time to fill the tires
with fluid before I
began using it this
spring. So far I am
liking the less weight
for treading on wet
spots in fields. I
recently reduced the
air pressure (it was
at 25, I dropped it to
20) because it was
shaking me to death
while spraying a
field. The only time
the loss of weight has
been an issue is
moving one load of
hay--it was digging
pretty bad. We do all
of our bushogging with
this tractor so there
are quite a few banks
and hillsides to get
into. Wonder if it
would be more stable
with the fluid in?<br>
> <br>
> John Hall<br>
> <br>
>
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