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<p>Farmer:<br>
I would bet the factory does not want the rear tires ballasted so
the hydrostat can slip if needed. I recall a small new holland
hydro tractor a doctor friend had. They weighted the rear tires
and were pulling loaded small trailers of cut firewood over the
ranch with a lot of steep hills. The hydrostat did not last
long. A lot of those true hydrostat transmissions cannot take the
load. I think that is the reason for the constant variable
transmission and the large number of gears on the old power shift
transmissions. <br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/5/2019 8:54 PM, Indiana Robinson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMe_8WX1E5_hDn7UOB-_5kbNY2sAa9sdxygZUxVkUfU1NPrUZA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">About rear ballast... I've held off on mentioning
this until I had a quick chance to ask son Scott a question. I
was recalling something he had told me some time ago but wanted
to be sure I wasn't dreaming it. :-) He remembered it and said
the the source was our close neighbor to the west who bought a
new John Deere Compact Utility Tractor (I "think" it is about 35
or 40 HP with a nice loader and hydro-static transmission). He
couldn't recall if it was something in the owners manual or
advice from the dealer but supposedly he was not to install tire
ballast in that tractor. They sold weight for behind the tractor
or it was OK to hang an implement behind it but there was some
reason to not ballast the tire or add wheel weights. I have no
idea what the reason was... My first thought was that maybe
they felt that the rear axles might be a weak spot but I seem to
recall some mention of the hydro-static transmission. I'll
likely see that neighbor this week end and I will ask him about
it. I had never heard anything like that before.<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 5:01 PM
Cecil Bearden <<a href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Steve:</p>
<p>I would make a small wager that your rims would have been
50% less if you could have ordered them before Fiat got so
involved in new holland. I am just not a fan of Fiat.
After they bought out Allis Chalmers construction
equipment, parts were either non-existent or platinum...
Unfortunately I have a few pieces of Allis construction
equipment here. None are operable due to a repair parts
cost of over $2000. This is the reason I went to
Caterpillar. There are enough aftermarket parts available
for Cats. Cat tried to stop the aftermarket parts supply
many years ago by buying Surplus Tractor Parts of Fargo
North Dakota. 3 years after buying them Caterpillar
shutdown the facility and scrapped all the machines in
order to make everyone buy new Caterpillar machines. It
did not work as they planned. The overseas manufacturers
started supplying parts and small salvages started up all
over. I recently traded my old D6 8U series dozer for a
112 grader. My old D6 had sat for about 10 years since I
parked it. We loaded it without it not running. The
fellow I traded with is a real mechanic. We dropped the
dozer off at about 1pm Sunday and loaded the grader and
headed home. He had the dozer running before dark!!!!!
I wish he was closer to my place, we could have some great
times with all of our toys. That trade has turned out to
be a great deal for both of us. I have another 112
grader, and also another friend in the brotherhood.....<br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>On 9/5/2019 4:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Dean:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My non-antique chore tractor is a Ford 1520,
which is a 23hp 4x4 diesel built by Shibaura in Japan,
1995ish. Rear tires are 13.6 x 16 R-3 turf. It has a
loader. I got it used in 1999 with 396 hours and
calcium in the rears. Rims finally rotted through
last year. Got new tires from Simpletire dot com at
Cecil Bearden's suggestion. But it turned out that
the rims aren't common. Could not find a generic
equivalent, and I had to go to the CNH dealer
(Messicks, in fact). The cost was staggering (no
fault of Messick's, it was the same or higher
everywhere else). I hate to say how much but it was
deep into four digits to get the tractor rolling
again. So apparently it held off the calcium for
about 23 years assuming the original owner had it
delivered loaded. I'd like to think I'm young enough
(57) to see another 23 years on this tractor and I
chose to spend the money on the beet juice.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SO</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 5, 2019
at 12:36 AM <<a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div
class="gmail-m_3302903638967867002m_594278638617031727m_9029371309236227337gmail-m_4276003905023876292WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have CC in my rear tires
on my Compact Tractor. Don’t like CC but it
was in there when I bought the tractor and
I’ve only had one leak in 20 plus years. The
tractor would be completely useless w/o it. As
long as I have owned the tractor, now over 20
years, I have tried to find compatible rear
wheel weights. No luck so far.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 4, 2019 4:44
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion
Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted tires or
not???</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean, I recommend beet
juice. Yeah, people say it's expensive (a
relative term). On a little sub-compact
utility tractor, it might cost a couple or a
few hundred bucks. It will probably be
comparable money to the cheapest implement
you've acquired. And the thing is, it's an
"implement" that you will use every single
time you run the tractor, and it's an
"implement" you don't have to install or
remove (after the initial installation of
course).</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve O..</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at
6:51 AM Dean Vinson <<a
href="mailto:dean@vinsonfarm.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dean@vinsonfarm.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor
rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none
solid;border-width:medium medium medium
1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dean
VP, completely agree—the loader
moves the COG forward as you said,
and rear weights move it back
rearward and downward as Steve had
said. Only quibble I’d add is that
you may have meant to say adding
ballast in the rear reduces “the
relative proportion of” weight on
the front axle, not the absolute
weight on the front axle.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I’ve
never rolled a tractor but have a
little sub-compact utility tractor
with a mower deck and loader. I
should get a rear counterweight for
the 3-point hitch (or an implement,
as you’ve done) for use with the
loader, but just having the mower
deck on helps a lot. (Although it
can be in the way sometimes,
limiting the usefulness of the
loader). But without at least the
mower deck on, the loader is all but
useless… little tractor is just too
tippy.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dean
Vinson</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Saint
Paris, Ohio</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225)
currentcolor
currentcolor;border-style:solid none
none;border-width:1pt medium
medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September
4, 2019 2:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group' <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted
tires or not???</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steven</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is why I think
adding rear counter weight to a
tractor with a loader helps stability
against roll-over.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">When a loader is
added to a tractor the COG moves
forward. With a load in the bucket it
moves further forward almost over the
front axle causing less traction or
weight on the rear axle/tires. Note:
adding ballast in the rear reduces
weight on the front axle with more on
the rear. Most of the roll over
stability comes from the rear tires.
One does not want the tractor
stability coming from a rotating WFE
or a NFE. The rear wheels need to
have a dominate role. This may be an
intuitive response but I think the
physics will verify it. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
<<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 3,
2019 5:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted
tires or not???</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In 3-dimensional
space, the CG of a tractor is likely
to be very close to the center in
terms of left-right; closer to the
rear in terms of front-back; and
some height from the ground. When
you add ballast to the tires it does
not change that left-right CG
location (assuming you add ballast
equally to both rears), and moves CG
even farther to the rear and closer
to the ground. It is intuitively
clear that a tractor on the verge of
a side rollover will be aided by
weight added to the uphill side.
But from a free body diagram
perspective, the difference comes
from the changes in CG rearward and
downward.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 3,
2019 at 7:56 AM Jim Becker <<a
href="mailto:mr.jebecker@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mr.jebecker@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor
rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none
none none solid;border-width:medium
medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in
0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The
added 500# on the high
side has more effect
than the 500# on the low
side. It is farther
away horizontally from
the bottom of the low
side rear tire (or the
magic
triangle/trapezoid) and
thus has more leverage.
As far as it “having a
greater effect than any
change in CG”, it is the
same thing. Looking at
the 500# by itself is
just selecting one
component of the CG to
look at (a valid way to
look at it).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Adding
fluid to the tires
definitely lowers the
CG. How much depends on
a bunch of factors,
including how tall the
tires are, how high the
CG is to begin with and
the relative weight of
the fluid vs. the weight
of the tractor. The
taller the tractor, the
more effect it has.
When we first started
using mechanical grape
pickers (1960s), many of
them were built on a
very high clearance
tractor (6 feet+ under
the axles). The things
were plenty heavy enough
as delivered, but
everyone loaded the
tires to help the
stability.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jim
Becker</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke
none repeat scroll
0% 0%"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> Dennis
Johnson </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke
none repeat scroll
0% 0%"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
Monday, September
02, 2019 5:46 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke
none repeat scroll
0% 0%"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
Antique Tractor
Email Discussion
Group </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke
none repeat scroll
0% 0%"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> Re:
[AT] weighted
tires or not???</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Static
rollover happens when
the CG moves outside of
the pivot point which is
the bottom of the
downside tire (or tires
of pivot is against
stop). As long as the CG
is “inside” of the down
side rear tire the
vehicle will not roll.
As soon as the CG moves
outside of the pilot
point the unit will
rollover. </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dynamic rollover when turning at
speed changes things
because it adds
centrifugal force to
help shove the CG
sideways and make the
unit roll sooner.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">With weighted tires, the downside
tire has an extra 500#
outside of the pivot
point trying to tip
it, in addition to the
500# or the upside
tire holding it back.
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dennis</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<div
id="gmail-m_3302903638967867002m_594278638617031727m_9029371309236227337gmail-m_4276003905023876292gmail-m_8409509836083451211gmail-m_-5025098376517213717AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Sent from my iPad</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><br>
On Sep 2, 2019, at
5:22 PM, Howard
Pletcher <<a
href="mailto:hrpletch@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">hrpletch@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Wouldn't
the extra 500#
or so holding
the high side
down have a
greater effect
than any
change in CG?
It seems it
would be more
stable.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Howard</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 5:54 PM Dennis
Johnson <<a
href="mailto:moscowengnr@outlook.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">moscowengnr@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor
currentcolor
rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none
none none
solid;border-width:medium
medium medium
1pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6pt;margin:5pt 0in
5pt 4.8pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The weighted tires would lower the
center of
gravity
slightly.
Assuming the
tires were
100% full the
CG of the
added fluid
would be on
the axle CG.
If less than
100%, then the
CG would be
slightly
lower. The CG
of most
tractors will
be slightly
above the axle
center.
Tractors with
offset final
drives would
have CG a
little higher
than those
with the final
drive in line
with the
engine
crankshaft.
Combining the
CG of the
tires and
tractor would
lower the
overall CG a
little bit,
making the
tractor more
stable.<br>
Adding low
mounted
implements or
weights would
change this.<br>
<br>
Dennis<br>
<br>
Sent from my
iPad<br>
<br>
> On Sep 2,
2019, at 2:37
PM, John Hall
<<a
href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> All this
talk about
wide front vs.
narrow front
got me
wondering
about
something
else. Are
tractors with
fluid filled
rears more
stable on
hills or in
quick
maneuvering on
uneven ground?
The reason I
ask is that I
replaced the
tires on a IH
utility
tractor we
have had since
new (1972
454). It has
over 8,000 hrs
and we have
always had
weighted tires
on it. Well I
didn't have
time to fill
the tires with
fluid before I
began using it
this spring.
So far I am
liking the
less weight
for treading
on wet spots
in fields. I
recently
reduced the
air pressure
(it was at 25,
I dropped it
to 20) because
it was shaking
me to death
while spraying
a field. The
only time the
loss of weight
has been an
issue is
moving one
load of
hay--it was
digging pretty
bad. We do all
of our
bushogging
with this
tractor so
there are
quite a few
banks and
hillsides to
get into.
Wonder if it
would be more
stable with
the fluid in?<br>
> <br>
> John Hall<br>
> <br>
>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
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align="center"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">
<hr width="100%"
size="2"
align="center"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="gmail-m_3302903638967867002mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="gmail-m_3302903638967867002moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="gmail-m_3302903638967867002moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="gmail-m_3302903638967867002moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
AT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-- <br>
<br>
Francis Robinson<br>
aka "farmer"<br>
Central Indiana USA<br>
<a href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">robinson46176@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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