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<p>I use methanol/water 50/50 in mine, not as heavy as beet juice,
but not sticky either, and it evaporates.<br>
Cecil</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/4/2019 6:43 AM, Stephen Offiler
wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Dean, I recommend beet juice. Yeah, people say
it's expensive (a relative term). On a little sub-compact
utility tractor, it might cost a couple or a few hundred bucks.
It will probably be comparable money to the cheapest implement
you've acquired. And the thing is, it's an "implement" that you
will use every single time you run the tractor, and it's an
"implement" you don't have to install or remove (after the
initial installation of course).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Steve O..</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 6:51 AM
Dean Vinson <<a href="mailto:dean@vinsonfarm.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dean@vinsonfarm.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dean
VP, completely agree—the loader moves the COG forward
as you said, and rear weights move it back rearward
and downward as Steve had said. Only quibble I’d add
is that you may have meant to say adding ballast in
the rear reduces “the relative proportion of” weight
on the front axle, not the absolute weight on the
front axle.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I’ve
never rolled a tractor but have a little sub-compact
utility tractor with a mower deck and loader. I
should get a rear counterweight for the 3-point hitch
(or an implement, as you’ve done) for use with the
loader, but just having the mower deck on helps a
lot. (Although it can be in the way sometimes,
limiting the usefulness of the loader). But without
at least the mower deck on, the loader is all but
useless… little tractor is just too tippy.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dean
Vinson</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Saint
Paris, Ohio</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT [mailto:<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 4, 2019 2:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group'
<<a href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted tires or not???</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steven</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is why I think adding rear
counter weight to a tractor with a loader helps
stability against roll-over.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">When a loader is added to a tractor
the COG moves forward. With a load in the bucket it
moves further forward almost over the front axle causing
less traction or weight on the rear axle/tires. Note:
adding ballast in the rear reduces weight on the front
axle with more on the rear. Most of the roll over
stability comes from the rear tires. One does not want
the tractor stability coming from a rotating WFE or a
NFE. The rear wheels need to have a dominate role. This
may be an intuitive response but I think the physics
will verify it. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Offiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 3, 2019 5:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] weighted tires or not???</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In 3-dimensional space, the CG of a
tractor is likely to be very close to the center in
terms of left-right; closer to the rear in terms of
front-back; and some height from the ground. When you
add ballast to the tires it does not change that
left-right CG location (assuming you add ballast
equally to both rears), and moves CG even farther to
the rear and closer to the ground. It is intuitively
clear that a tractor on the verge of a side rollover
will be aided by weight added to the uphill side. But
from a free body diagram perspective, the difference
comes from the changes in CG rearward and downward.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 7:56 AM
Jim Becker <<a
href="mailto:mr.jebecker@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mr.jebecker@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
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6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The
added 500# on the high side has more
effect than the 500# on the low side. It
is farther away horizontally from the
bottom of the low side rear tire (or the
magic triangle/trapezoid) and thus has
more leverage. As far as it “having a
greater effect than any change in CG”, it
is the same thing. Looking at the 500# by
itself is just selecting one component of
the CG to look at (a valid way to look at
it).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Adding
fluid to the tires definitely lowers the
CG. How much depends on a bunch of
factors, including how tall the tires are,
how high the CG is to begin with and the
relative weight of the fluid vs. the
weight of the tractor. The taller the
tractor, the more effect it has. When we
first started using mechanical grape
pickers (1960s), many of them were built
on a very high clearance tractor (6 feet+
under the axles). The things were plenty
heavy enough as delivered, but everyone
loaded the tires to help the stability.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jim
Becker</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> Dennis
Johnson </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
Monday, September 02, 2019 5:46 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">
Antique Tractor Email Discussion
Group </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> Re:
[AT] weighted tires or not???</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Static
rollover happens when the CG moves outside
of the pivot point which is the bottom of
the downside tire (or tires of pivot is
against stop). As long as the CG is
“inside” of the down side rear tire the
vehicle will not roll. As soon as the CG
moves outside of the pilot point the unit
will rollover. </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dynamic
rollover when turning at speed changes
things because it adds centrifugal force
to help shove the CG sideways and make
the unit roll sooner.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">With
weighted tires, the downside tire has an
extra 500# outside of the pivot point
trying to tip it, in addition to the
500# or the upside tire holding it back.
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dennis</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<div
id="gmail-m_8409509836083451211gmail-m_-5025098376517213717AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Sent
from my iPad</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><br>
On Sep 2, 2019, at 5:22 PM, Howard
Pletcher <<a
href="mailto:hrpletch@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">hrpletch@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Wouldn't
the extra 500# or so holding the
high side down have a greater
effect than any change in CG?
It seems it would be more
stable.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Howard</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">On
Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 5:54 PM
Dennis Johnson <<a
href="mailto:moscowengnr@outlook.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">moscowengnr@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
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style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
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0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt
4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The
weighted tires would lower the
center of gravity slightly.
Assuming the tires were 100%
full the CG of the added fluid
would be on the axle CG. If less
than 100%, then the CG would be
slightly lower. The CG of most
tractors will be slightly above
the axle center. Tractors with
offset final drives would have
CG a little higher than those
with the final drive in line
with the engine crankshaft.
Combining the CG of the tires
and tractor would lower the
overall CG a little bit, making
the tractor more stable.<br>
Adding low mounted implements or
weights would change this.<br>
<br>
Dennis<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On Sep 2, 2019, at 2:37 PM,
John Hall <<a
href="mailto:jtchall@nc.rr.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jtchall@nc.rr.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> All this talk about wide
front vs. narrow front got me
wondering about something else.
Are tractors with fluid filled
rears more stable on hills or in
quick maneuvering on uneven
ground? The reason I ask is that
I replaced the tires on a IH
utility tractor we have had
since new (1972 454). It has
over 8,000 hrs and we have
always had weighted tires on it.
Well I didn't have time to fill
the tires with fluid before I
began using it this spring. So
far I am liking the less weight
for treading on wet spots in
fields. I recently reduced the
air pressure (it was at 25, I
dropped it to 20) because it was
shaking me to death while
spraying a field. The only time
the loss of weight has been an
issue is moving one load of
hay--it was digging pretty bad.
We do all of our bushogging with
this tractor so there are quite
a few banks and hillsides to get
into. Wonder if it would be more
stable with the fluid in?<br>
> <br>
> John Hall<br>
> <br>
>
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