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<DIV>As I recall, the difference between the front pivot point for a NFE being
on the ground vs. at the pin of a WFE axle was George’s primary argument.
My argument was that with 2/3 to 3/4 of the weight on the rear axle, this
difference wasn’t very significant. Besides, the pivot point on a WFE is
at the center. With a NFE it is at the low side front tire (with dual
fronts), which cancels out part of the WFE advantage.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I tried, during one of these discussions, to find a reliable university
study of stability. I only found one that had gathered any hard data by
rolling some tractors over. I contacted the primary author to see if they
had anything on wide vs. narrow. From his reply, it was clear the question
hadn’t even occurred to them. He then added words to the effect that
obviously a WFE was safer. It was also clear that his reply was not
thought out and lacked any consideration for the fact an axle pivot even
exists.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Becker</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=moscowengnr@outlook.com>Dennis Johnson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 02, 2019 7:21 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=at@lists.antique-tractor.com>Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AT] Tractor safety</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>The
significant difference between a wide and narrow front is the height of the
“pivot point” on the front end. A narrow front pivots close the the center of
the front tires on the ground. A wide front pivots on the front axle pin, which
is close to 2 feet above the ground, until it hits the stops. After it hits the
stops things change.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dennis<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=AppleMailSignature dir=ltr>Sent from my iPad</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><BR>On Sep 2, 2019, at 2:26 AM, "<A>deanvp@att.net</A>"
<<A>deanvp@att.net</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Howard and Jim,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Many years ago right here on ATIS I published a link to the
engineering study that showed the roll over potential difference between
NFE vs WFE. As I recall it was a study accomplished in some other
country other than the US. For some reason I want to say Australia but that
may be a fig newton of my imagination. A few years ago this subject came up
again here on ATIS and I tried to find the published information but didn’t
have luck then. Maybe someone who knows how to do a really good
search on ATIS Archives can find my reference link. I’m guessing it was
well over 10 years ago maybe even 15 years ago. The tests were very well
documented and the Engineering Science was included showing how the COG
changed between the two front ends, before and during a potential roll.
It was a very well done engineering piece of work. I’ll do some web
searching again and see if I can find the article. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dean VP<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B>From:</B> AT
<<A>at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</A>> <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jim
Becker<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 1, 2019 10:10 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
<<A>at@lists.antique-tractor.com</A>><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AT]
Tractor safety<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I thought I was
the only one that had that repeated argument with George. My
assertion was that any advantage a WFE might have was inconsequential.
By the time a WFE hit the stop, you were already near, if not past the tipping
point. None of us had any hard data to back up our
opinions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Jim
Becker<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
Indiana Robinson <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
Sunday, September 01, 2019 7:47 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> Re:
[AT] Tractor safety<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hi
Dean:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">You or some
other long time members here might recall (or maybe not) :-) me
having a friendly disagreement years ago with my old friend George Willer with
me trying to make the exact same point about not encouraging wide front
operators to become over confident on
hills.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
dir=ltr><SPAN>_______________________________________________</SPAN><BR><SPAN>AT
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