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Years back I was involved in doing some testing for rollover stability with oil field equipment. We went to a Nevada test facility (I think owned by Hodges trucking) where many auto companies do various testing. One test was to put a vehicle on a tilt bed,
and raise one side until the tires came up and vehicle started to roll over. We had chains to stop the rollover.
<div>It would be interesting to have a day with that test stand, and a few tractors to test. Would need to have 2 tractors identical except for the front end configuration to get good results.</div>
<div>Those results were basically static without any forward motion, but would still give some accurate results.</div>
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<div>Dennis<br>
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<div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPad</div>
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On Sep 2, 2019, at 10:09 AM, Jim Becker <<a href="mailto:mr.jebecker@gmail.com">mr.jebecker@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>As I recall, the difference between the front pivot point for a NFE being on the ground vs. at the pin of a WFE axle was George’s primary argument. My argument was that with 2/3 to 3/4 of the weight on the rear axle, this difference wasn’t very significant.
Besides, the pivot point on a WFE is at the center. With a NFE it is at the low side front tire (with dual fronts), which cancels out part of the WFE advantage.</div>
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<div>I tried, during one of these discussions, to find a reliable university study of stability. I only found one that had gathered any hard data by rolling some tractors over. I contacted the primary author to see if they had anything on wide vs. narrow.
From his reply, it was clear the question hadn’t even occurred to them. He then added words to the effect that obviously a WFE was safer. It was also clear that his reply was not thought out and lacked any consideration for the fact an axle pivot even exists.</div>
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<div>Jim Becker</div>
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<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="moscowengnr@outlook.com">Dennis Johnson</a>
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<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 02, 2019 7:21 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="at@lists.antique-tractor.com">Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group</a>
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<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Tractor safety</div>
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The significant difference between a wide and narrow front is the height of the “pivot point” on the front end. A narrow front pivots close the the center of the front tires on the ground. A wide front pivots on the front axle pin, which is close to 2 feet
above the ground, until it hits the stops. After it hits the stops things change.
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<div>Dennis<br>
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On Sep 2, 2019, at 2:26 AM, "<a>deanvp@att.net</a>" <<a>deanvp@att.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Howard and Jim,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Many years ago right here on ATIS I published a link to the engineering study that showed the roll over potential difference between NFE vs WFE. As I recall it was a study accomplished in some other country other than the US. For some
reason I want to say Australia but that may be a fig newton of my imagination. A few years ago this subject came up again here on ATIS and I tried to find the published information but didn’t have luck then. Maybe someone who knows how to do a really good
search on ATIS Archives can find my reference link. I’m guessing it was well over 10 years ago maybe even 15 years ago. The tests were very well documented and the Engineering Science was included showing how the COG changed between the two front ends, before
and during a potential roll. It was a very well done engineering piece of work. I’ll do some web searching again and see if I can find the article.
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <<a>at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Becker<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 1, 2019 10:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <<a>at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Tractor safety<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I thought I was the only one that had that repeated argument with George. My assertion was that any advantage a WFE might have was inconsequential. By the time a WFE hit the stop, you were
already near, if not past the tipping point. None of us had any hard data to back up our opinions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Jim Becker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Indiana Robinson
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black">Sent:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Sunday, September 01, 2019 7:47
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black">To:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Antique Tractor Email Discussion
Group <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black">Subject:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Re: [AT] Tractor safety<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hi Dean:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">You or some other long time members here might recall (or maybe not) :-) me having a friendly disagreement years ago with my old friend George Willer with me trying to make the exact same point
about not encouraging wide front operators to become over confident on hills.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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