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Think first.</div>
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<span>Years ago was camping at a new campground Toledo area on the lake. Moved our camper in and set up for the week and watched an employee rotary mowing the grounds with a JD utility tractor. Loader was at max height. I drove to the ranger station and
told them I was not going to watch them pull a guy out from under a tractor. Loader came down to almost ground level very quickly and continued mowing. </span></div>
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<span>I loaded manure out of barns with a WD AC narrow front and no power steering as a teenager. Also used a IHl M tricycle with a tempelton loader (made in Lexington, Oh). Never had an issue. But, had older neighbor killed on an M IH (narrow frt) moving
rocks. Another neighbor was moving rocks around his house M IH and rolled it. That was 40 yrs ago and he is still suffering hip proble</span><u><font color="#000120">ms.</font></u></div>
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<span>My brother Rolled a 4 wheel drive pay loader (Michigan). He had the bucket up to see under it. He was lucky. Somehow rolled on top of him and was a depression in the ground that saved him. </span></div>
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<span>Ford 8n s look safe, are low to ground and wide frt. I have helped upright 3 of those tractors. They roll easily.</span></div>
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<span>I moved and stacked 1000's of 1800 lb. 6 by 6 NH855 bales. Tractor was an MM 950 lp with loader and bale carrier on front and balanced with another 3pt NH bale carrier on the rear. Tractor was heavy and balanced. </span></div>
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<span>It is the operator more than the tractor. If the Center of gravity is high you will have an issue. Safety first.</span></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> AT <at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com> on behalf of bradloomis@charter.net <bradloomis@charter.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 1, 2019 6:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' <at@lists.antique-tractor.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Tractor safety</font>
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<span style="color:windowtext">First rule of forklift safety. Buckle up and if it goes over hang on, lean away from impact and ride it out. Don’t jump. I’ve never understood why I see people in fields with the loader sky high. I’d look over rather than under
any day. COG goes weird with shifting weight. Dean’s experience shows that. </span>
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<b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> AT <at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Cecil Bearden<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 01, 2019 2:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> at@lists.antique-tractor.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Tractor safety</span></p>
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<p>Dean:<br>
I would second the admonition to be very careful with a loader. I see so many tractors with loaders mowing fields here, and the loader is raised nearly to the top!!!!!!!! What the H**L is the operator thinking?!?!?!? I worked for and with an older fellow
cutting hay on 150 acres. When I would get on the tractor to cut, bale, or rake, and he was driving, the first thing I did was lower the loader. It usually had a bale spike on it. He once asked me why I always lowered the bucket. I told him it was because
I did not want to tear up the cab. This was when the disc mower was attached and he had been running about 9mph over the field, and we were having problems with gophers. I have had some unsettling experiences with my tractors as they all have loaders, but
that bucket or spike is kept as close to the ground as possible. The scariest experience is opening a new field and finding the new holes from coyotes digging for rats and other burrowing animals. I have had one field ruined by coyotes. It has some sloping
areas and it seemed each time I baled it I found a new hole on the downhill side. A big local farmer leased it out from under me and now it is his problem. Every sticker I have seen on a loader says Carry Load Low.
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<p>I must also tell you all about the sticker that comes on the Belarus tractors from the factory.
<b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">"In case of tractor overturn, do not jump, hold tight to steering wheel".</span></b>
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Cecil</p>
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On 9/1/2019 4:08 PM, <a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net">deanvp@att.net</a> wrote:</p>
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I have posted on this list, in the past, real and actual engineering testing results on the stability of Narrow vs WFE tractors. There is a statement made in the Face “discussion” that is misleading at best and probably incorrect at the worst as follows:</p>
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“Tricycle type tractors are significantly more prone to rollovers than wide front tractors, and should therefore not be used with front-end loaders. On this farm there was a wide front tractor of the same brand and model and approximately same year and condition.
This tractor would have been a safer choice to be used with the front-end loader. Using the wide front tractor would likely have prevented this accident.”</p>
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The engineering tests do not necessarily agree with “significantly more prone” and a “wide front end would have likely prevented this accident” Yes, there is a slight and please note “slight” improvement in stability with a WFE tractor in this kind of situation
but not “significant” especially not nearly as “significant” as we are lead to believe. The statements in the discussion do not reference any testing results or engineering studies and therefore need to be taken as a grain of salt. The most dangerous part
of this is leading WFE tractor owners to feel like they are significantly less prone to roll-overs. There are many contributing factors which contribute to roll overs and one of the worst is turning up into the hill while moving which creates a rotational
force over and above just the slope of the hill. The fully loaded loader bucket was described as being up at about 66% which adds significantly to the higher momentary center of gravity. The article that I published showed that once the tractor started to
roll the WFE would rotate with the rear wheels and hit the normal stops of the WFE rotation and possibly increase the chance of roll over due to the sudden hit. I would guess that the overwhelming causes of the roll over were due to the loader bucket being
at 66% and the speed at which the turn into the hill occurred. Both major contributions. Of course the slope of the hill is important as well and whether or not any of the wheels of the tractor hit any kind of obstruction. But… I just always get my back up
when I hear WFE tractors are safer than NFE tractors. Not nearly as much as we are led to believe.
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An anecdotal reference: I’ve lived at my current residence for 21 years in retirement. I currently own 11 antique tractors more NFE than WFE, more that I have bought and sold, all NFE, and one newer compact tractor a 1981 model. There are parts of my 6 acres
that have a decent slope sometimes exceeding 6%. Each of these tractors has been out and about on the property even in the sloped areas at times. But…… only once have I rolled a tractor and that occurred just a couple years ago. No it was not any of my
antique tractors with NFE or WFE it was my newest tractor my 1981 JD 750 Compact with a WFE. Yes, and of course it had a loader. I was moving dirt no more than 300 feet from one area at the entrance to a low area where I had removed an old growth cedar stump.
I was driving on a slight slope, parallel to the slope with the loaded bucket no more than a foot off the ground in low gear which is a really slow gear. I was being really careful primarily because of the slope which really wasn’t all that steep but I was
being cautious. But… the right front wheel dropped into a hidden hole maybe 6” or more deep and that caused the loader bucket to shift to the right and damned if the whole tractor started a very slow roll. So slow that I had time to decide whether I was going
to stay on the tractor or jump. I decided to ride it out. Yes it rolled on to it’s right side and stopped abruptly. Why, because of the Roll Over Protection Structure mounted right behind the seat stopped it from rolling over more. I am alive today because
of ROPS. I got beat up a little and had trouble getting out of bed the next morning but… I am still here. Just for talking points, a NFE would have missed this hidden hole. But that isn’t really important to this discussion.
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So if the “Face” article had just limited itself to stating that ROPS would have probably prevented this death I wouldn’t be commenting here. I believe I am right in that JD invented the ROPS concept and immediately released their rights to the invention to
any and all manufacturers who wanted to use it. I haven’t looked to see if ROPS is now legally required on specific sized newly manufactured tractors. If not, it should be. </p>
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Whatever be the case be very careful when using a loader on an antique tractor be they NFE or WFE. They are both dangerous especially on slopes. Be safe out there.
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PS: My only intent here is to warn WFE Tractor owners away from being overly confident that they are any safer.
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ROPS reference source: <a href="https://blog.machinefinder.com/27325/john-deere-rops-key-dates-and-its-role-in-operator-safety">
https://blog.machinefinder.com/27325/john-deere-rops-key-dates-and-its-role-in-operator-safety</a></p>
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Dean VP</p>
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Snohomish, WA 98290</p>
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<b>From:</b> AT <a href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Indiana Robinson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 1, 2019 10:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <a href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com">
<at@lists.antique-tractor.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Tractor safety</p>
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No. New chemical weed control put most cultivators in the scrap...</p>
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On Sun, Sep 1, 2019, 10:50 AM James Peck <<a href="mailto:jamesgpeck@hotmail.com">jamesgpeck@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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Were narrow front tractors discontinued due to legislation or lawsuits?</p>
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<b>[ </b>Indiana Robinson] <snip> I was looking for something else when Google showed me this report from about 1995. The age of the report doesn't matter, it's timeless.</p>
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<a href="https://face.public-health.uiowa.edu/Reports/REPORT-003.html" target="_blank">https://face.public-health.uiowa.edu/Reports/REPORT-003.html</a> <snip></p>
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