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<p>Dean:<br>
I would second the admonition to be very careful with a loader. I
see so many tractors with loaders mowing fields here, and the
loader is raised nearly to the top!!!!!!!! What the H**L is the
operator thinking?!?!?!? I worked for and with an older fellow
cutting hay on 150 acres. When I would get on the tractor to cut,
bale, or rake, and he was driving, the first thing I did was lower
the loader. It usually had a bale spike on it. He once asked me
why I always lowered the bucket. I told him it was because I did
not want to tear up the cab. This was when the disc mower was
attached and he had been running about 9mph over the field, and we
were having problems with gophers. I have had some unsettling
experiences with my tractors as they all have loaders, but that
bucket or spike is kept as close to the ground as possible. The
scariest experience is opening a new field and finding the new
holes from coyotes digging for rats and other burrowing animals.
I have had one field ruined by coyotes. It has some sloping areas
and it seemed each time I baled it I found a new hole on the
downhill side. A big local farmer leased it out from under me and
now it is his problem. Every sticker I have seen on a loader says
Carry Load Low. <br>
</p>
<p>I must also tell you all about the sticker that comes on the
Belarus tractors from the factory. <b><font size="+1">"In case
of tractor overturn, do not jump, hold tight to steering
wheel".</font></b> <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Cecil<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/1/2019 4:08 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:deanvp@att.net">deanvp@att.net</a>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have posted on this list, in the past,
real and actual engineering testing results on the stability
of Narrow vs WFE tractors. There is a statement made in the
Face “discussion” that is misleading at best and probably
incorrect at the worst as follows:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> “Tricycle type tractors are significantly
more prone to rollovers than wide front tractors, and should
therefore not be used with front-end loaders. On this farm
there was a wide front tractor of the same brand and model and
approximately same year and condition. This tractor would have
been a safer choice to be used with the front-end loader.
Using the wide front tractor would likely have prevented this
accident.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The engineering tests do not necessarily
agree with “significantly more prone” and a “wide front end
would have likely prevented this accident” Yes, there is a
slight and please note “slight” improvement in stability with
a WFE tractor in this kind of situation but not “significant”
especially not nearly as “significant” as we are lead to
believe. The statements in the discussion do not reference
any testing results or engineering studies and therefore need
to be taken as a grain of salt. The most dangerous part of
this is leading WFE tractor owners to feel like they are
significantly less prone to roll-overs. There are many
contributing factors which contribute to roll overs and one of
the worst is turning up into the hill while moving which
creates a rotational force over and above just the slope of
the hill. The fully loaded loader bucket was described as
being up at about 66% which adds significantly to the higher
momentary center of gravity. The article that I published
showed that once the tractor started to roll the WFE would
rotate with the rear wheels and hit the normal stops of the
WFE rotation and possibly increase the chance of roll over due
to the sudden hit. I would guess that the overwhelming causes
of the roll over were due to the loader bucket being at 66%
and the speed at which the turn into the hill occurred. Both
major contributions. Of course the slope of the hill is
important as well and whether or not any of the wheels of the
tractor hit any kind of obstruction. But… I just always get
my back up when I hear WFE tractors are safer than NFE
tractors. Not nearly as much as we are led to believe. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">An anecdotal reference: I’ve lived at my
current residence for 21 years in retirement. I currently own
11 antique tractors more NFE than WFE, more that I have bought
and sold, all NFE, and one newer compact tractor a 1981
model. There are parts of my 6 acres that have a decent slope
sometimes exceeding 6%. Each of these tractors has been out
and about on the property even in the sloped areas at times.
But…… only once have I rolled a tractor and that occurred
just a couple years ago. No it was not any of my antique
tractors with NFE or WFE it was my newest tractor my 1981 JD
750 Compact with a WFE. Yes, and of course it had a loader.
I was moving dirt no more than 300 feet from one area at the
entrance to a low area where I had removed an old growth cedar
stump. I was driving on a slight slope, parallel to the slope
with the loaded bucket no more than a foot off the ground in
low gear which is a really slow gear. I was being really
careful primarily because of the slope which really wasn’t all
that steep but I was being cautious. But… the right front
wheel dropped into a hidden hole maybe 6” or more deep and
that caused the loader bucket to shift to the right and damned
if the whole tractor started a very slow roll. So slow that I
had time to decide whether I was going to stay on the tractor
or jump. I decided to ride it out. Yes it rolled on to it’s
right side and stopped abruptly. Why, because of the Roll
Over Protection Structure mounted right behind the seat
stopped it from rolling over more. I am alive today because
of ROPS. I got beat up a little and had trouble getting out
of bed the next morning but… I am still here. Just for
talking points, a NFE would have missed this hidden hole. But
that isn’t really important to this discussion. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So if the “Face” article had just limited
itself to stating that ROPS would have probably prevented this
death I wouldn’t be commenting here. I believe I am right in
that JD invented the ROPS concept and immediately released
their rights to the invention to any and all manufacturers who
wanted to use it. I haven’t looked to see if ROPS is now
legally required on specific sized newly manufactured
tractors. If not, it should be. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whatever be the case be very careful when
using a loader on an antique tractor be they NFE or WFE. They
are both dangerous especially on slopes. Be safe out there. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">PS: My only intent here is to warn WFE
Tractor owners away from being overly confident that they are
any safer. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ROPS reference source: <a
href="https://blog.machinefinder.com/27325/john-deere-rops-key-dates-and-its-role-in-operator-safety"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://blog.machinefinder.com/27325/john-deere-rops-key-dates-and-its-role-in-operator-safety</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Indiana Robinson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 1, 2019 10:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at@lists.antique-tractor.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Tractor safety<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No. New chemical weed control put most
cultivators in the scrap...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Sep 1, 2019, 10:50 AM James
Peck <<a href="mailto:jamesgpeck@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jamesgpeck@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Were
narrow front tractors discontinued due to legislation
or lawsuits?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>[
</b>Indiana Robinson] <snip> I was looking for
something else when Google showed me this report from
about 1995. The age of the report doesn't matter, it's
timeless.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
href="https://face.public-health.uiowa.edu/Reports/REPORT-003.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://face.public-health.uiowa.edu/Reports/REPORT-003.html</a>
<snip><o:p></o:p></p>
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