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<DIV>“Short answer is no, they don't have any built-in protection.”</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If I had thought about that for a few minutes, I should have realized that
was the case at least for externally regulated alternators. The power out
wire from the alternator goes straight to the battery, typically not even
passing near the regulator. Actual output current isn’t available to the
regulator. My old diagrams (at least 20 years old) of internally regulated
alternators show the same connections, just all stuffed inside the alternator
housing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On the very late model cars, there is computer control of charging. I
have no idea whether they look at current level.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Becker</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=soffiler@gmail.com>Stephen
Offiler</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=at@lists.antique-tractor.com>Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AT] OK, oddball question...</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>Jim, your memory is remarkably good!
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Short answer is no, they don't have any built-in protection.
(Disclaimer: This may not be universally true, and it may not be true in
the modern day, but that's how they worked a couple decades ago)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Fusible links and "megafuses" take care of the protection externally.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SO</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:36 PM Jim Becker
<<A>mr.jebecker@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
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<DIV>Once generator based vehicle charging systems were equipped with full
voltage regulators, there was a built-in current regulator that (at least in
theory) kept the maximum output within the safe working limit of the
generator. If the total load on the system was more than the generator
capacity, the generator simply provided as much current as it could and the
battery would be gradually drained because it was making up the
difference. The older 3-brush generators in cut-out systems were
self-limiting on output and tended to take care of themselves, although
probably less reliably.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Steve, you have worked with internally regulated alternators and I am
sure you know their inner workings better than I do. But I would expect
those alternators to have built-in current regulators that would prevent
overload of the alternator itself. The situation I would compare to is
jumpstarting an engine from another vehicle with a running engine.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Becker</DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=soffiler@gmail.com>Stephen Offiler</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:40 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=at@lists.antique-tractor.com>Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AT] OK, oddball question...</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>The problem with trying to operate while charging (presumably,
charging off a 36-volt alternator driven by a small engine) is that,
basically, your alternator is supplying some/most/all of the cart's electric
motor current. How much depends on the batteries' state of discharge as
well as the demands of the cart, so it's a pretty big variable. But the
problem is that you risk overloading the alternator. Now if it is sized
appropriately then you minimize or eliminate the problem.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have you ever put a tractor battery (obligatory tractor reference) on a
small, say 10-amp charger, forget to disconnect it later, and try to start the
tractor? Well OK at least *I* have made that mistake. What
happens? Even with a pretty well-charged battery, the internal circuit
breaker in the charger trips. That is pretty much analagous to what I'm
talking about above.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SO</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:57 PM Indiana
Robinson <<A>robinson46176@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>Some good stuff here... The batteries are a matched set just under 2
years old. None have ever been low on water or even discharged very badly or
sat for any length time while low on charge. I've spent a fair amount
of time on cart sites but they had not discussed these particular
things.</DIV>
<DIV>Stephen, I had read on one of those sites that you should never use a
frame ground for anything for the reason you said.</DIV>
<DIV>I don't actually have any power drawing accessory items installed on
the cart, not even a backup alarm. If it had one somebody took it off. I
have an older 3 wheel EZ-Go that we are not currently using that has one. It
is "in-line" for a set of batteries and a general go-through but it is low
priority and is so far back in line it may be in the next county...
:-) One of those kind of projects... "Maybe someday if I get to it but
no big deal if I can't.</DIV>
<DIV>Even my horn on the Club Car isn't electric, it is an above average
chrome bike horn with a squeeze bulb.</DIV>
<DIV>I do have a set of lights for it but not installed yet. They are all
LED so low power needs. Still, I think the voltage reducer Bo mentioned is
the best answer for tapping 12 volts. I have considered several times
(especially this week :-) ) putting a couple of fans in the
front up under the roof.</DIV>
<DIV>Now, my original question was really based more on being able to extend
range especially if I am using more power than normal. You know, like
running the air conditioner... :-) :-) :-)</DIV>
<DIV>My old chargers are big and heavy but I've noticed that many new cart
chargers are quite small (and far less expensive) than the old style. I had
considered a 36 volt alternator regulator like Cecil mentioned but I think I
might consider just charging one separate 12 volt deep cycle with the built
in regulator in the alternator and then using one of those small new
chargers powered by one of several power inverters I have. I think I would
get more use out of a 12 volt system for other things since most camping
stuff is 12 volt. Sometimes when travelling you end up some place completely
without power...</DIV>
<DIV>Does anybody know if it would be problematic for any reason to operate
a golf cart while it is charging?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>.<BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 1:41 PM Spencer Yost
<<A>spencer@rdfarms.com</A>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV>I second Bo’s idea....
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Every other idea would be a nearly as expensive or more so, add
unnecessary complication and create additional work that detracts from
tractor time. I do understand that rigging something up that
is original and ingenious is a badge of honor. But I suspect
this is one project that screams for a plug-n-play solution.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I’d pull out some green shims($20 bills) and install the
reducer.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
id=gmail-m_4785137331701587903gmail-m_-7839303203603558695gmail-m_-2990893597506427556AppleMailSignature
dir=ltr>Spencer Yost</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><BR>On Jul 15, 2019, at 10:29 AM, Stephen Offiler
<<A>soffiler@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>Bo, sounds like a fine idea to me. 30 amps is a
pretty decent supply. Here's a direct link:
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="https://www.buggiesunlimited.com/golf-cart/reliance-36v-48v-12v-power-converter-(universal-fit)/13-030"
target=_blank>https://www.buggiesunlimited.com/golf-cart/reliance-36v-48v-12v-power-converter-(universal-fit)/13-030</A> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SO</DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM Bo Hinch
<<A>bohinch@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<H1
class=gmail-m_4785137331701587903gmail-m_-7839303203603558695gmail-m_-2990893597506427556gmail-m_1616753027173252880gmail-producttitle
style='BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 24px; FONT-FAMILY: "Open Sans"; BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 0px; WIDTH: auto; BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 0px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 2px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 10px 0px 35px; LIST-STYLE: none none outside; LINE-HEIGHT: 28px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px'>If
it were me , I would use a voltage reducer like below that cost around
$100.00 dollars and draws equal voltage from ALL the batteries never
making any two batteries weaker than the others . I have installed
many of them in my life time and years down the road , it pays off big
time .</H1>
<H1
class=gmail-m_4785137331701587903gmail-m_-7839303203603558695gmail-m_-2990893597506427556gmail-m_1616753027173252880gmail-producttitle
style='BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 24px; FONT-FAMILY: "Open Sans"; BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 0px; WIDTH: auto; BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 0px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 2px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 10px 0px 35px; LIST-STYLE: none none outside; LINE-HEIGHT: 28px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px'>Reliance
36V/48V-12V Voltage Reducer/Converter (Universal Fit) on sale now from
Buggies Unlimited . Normally 174.95 , sale price is 97.95 .</H1>
<DIV>Just my opinion for whatever its worth .</DIV>
<DIV>Bo Hinch in S/W louisiana watching Berry as its passing through
</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 6:28 AM Stephen
Offiler <<A>soffiler@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<DIV dir=ltr>Hi farmer:
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Batteries in parallel will try to equalize each other.
Yours, of course, are in series. In a series string, if one
battery is discharged, it will limit the performance of the whole
string. It will not be recharged by the other batteries
however. That's because you're trying to pull current from the
whole string, and recharge requires a push in the other
direction. Your idea to feed recharge to the center two
batteries will work fine *IF* you are very careful to isolate the
whole thing from the golf cart chassis. Otherwise you'll have some
unintended arc welding going on.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SO</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:45 PM
Indiana Robinson <<A>robinson46176@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>One of my "old tractors" is IIRC about a 1996 Club Car 36
volt golf cart. With chevron tires (like tractor rears) they will
get around well and will pull a lawn trailer about anywhere. I try
to not over do it but I have in a pinch pulled one of my smaller
tractors a very short distance or for a quick pull start.</DIV>
<DIV>It is as I said a 36 volt one using six 6 volt deep cycle
batteries.</DIV>
<DIV>Now for the question... Hoping that some are better at theory
etc. than I am. It's been a long hot day and my brain is in granny
gear and I can't find what I want on-line. There are a number of
golf cart accessories that operate on 12 volts like the back-up
alarm, radio, lights, fan etc. You can pull 12 volts from any 2
adjoining batteries. I have read that you shouldn't draw too hard
from any one pair or they will not always recharge evenly but
apparently if those two do drop some power there is some balancing
from the other batteries. Supposedly they try to find a common
level with the weakest battery. (shrug)</DIV>
<DIV>What I want to know is what would be happening if I
were to connect a 12 volt alternator powered by a very small
gasoline engine to feed 12 volts to the center 2 batteries? Would
it move to the other batteries some?<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sometimes when we are working horse fences a lot we get might
get a bit low on go juice when back in a back corner of the farm
especially if running in deep snow. Not this week. :-)
<BR></DIV>
<DIV>I fed the question into my boiled brain and it came back
"error 404, page not found"... :-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>
<DIV
class=gmail-m_4785137331701587903gmail-m_-7839303203603558695gmail-m_-2990893597506427556gmail-m_1616753027173252880gmail-m_5781241238102884885gmail-m_-4140413114284204259gmail_signature
dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>-- <BR><BR>Francis Robinson<BR>aka "farmer"<BR>Central
Indiana
USA<BR><A>robinson46176@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>AT
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<DIV>-- <BR><BR>Francis Robinson<BR>aka "farmer"<BR>Central Indiana
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