[AT] 3020 generator woes

Wed Jun 26 18:27:19 PDT 2024

Thank you, Bill, I’ll give that a try and report back.

Dean Vinson

Saint Paris, Ohio

From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Bill Brueck
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2024 8:25 PM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] 3020 generator woes

Ground the F terminal and check the generator output again.  If the regulator isn’t feeding the generator F a ground connection there will be only a little charge from residual magnetism in the pole shoes.  The idiot light may go out as well, but this isn’t a permanent solution.  Grounding the F terminal throws the gen into full charge.

B²

Bill Brueck

   Pine Island, MN USA

From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> > On Behalf Of Dean Vinson
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2024 7:07 PM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' <at at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> >
Subject: [AT] 3020 generator woes

Okay, so three months after having the hole-in-the-wall electrical shop service the generator and regulator from my recently-purchased JD 3020, the generator warning idiot light began coming on again.   At first it was just occasional flickering, and only when the tractor was idling.   Then it stopped being occasional, always on anytime the engine was at idle, but it’d go back off as soon as I throttled up and drove off.   Then it stopped going off when I throttled up, and now it’s just on anytime the engine is running.   Total elapsed time between when I first noticed it occasionally flickering and when it just comes on all the time was about two weeks.

I suspected the regulator must somehow be the problem, out of adjustment somehow or just finicky or whatever, since in my limited understanding a generator seems pretty simple and robust and this one was so recently serviced by a shop I trust.   So to confirm my assumption the generator itself was okay, I just now put my voltmeter on it to test between the generator A terminal and the tractor ground, and only got 4.0 volts.   Tested several times to make sure, and made sure I had an absolutely good ground.   4 volts??   How can it be 4?

Dean Vinson

Saint Paris, Ohio

From: AT < <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Dean Vinson
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 8:58 AM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' < <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Time to commence tinkering

Dean, yep, a generator… I think the OEM switch to alternators happened with the 1969 model year, and this tractor is a 67.   I thought briefly about converting it to an alternator rather than taking the generator to a shop, but sticking with the generator appealed to me from an originality perspective.   

And I like this particular shop… little hole in the wall in the not greatest part of town, small reception office with a battered stainless steel counter and some old sales displays of various toggle switches and cut-away starter motors and such.   From the counter you can see back toward the shop area and there are shelves lined with must literally be a ton of starters, alternators, and generators in all sorts of sizes.   They do a lot of truck service but also years ago had rebuilt the starter on my Super M for 12 volt operation, since the tractor had been converted to 12 but the starter pinion would hit the ring gear like it had been fired from a cannon.   Anyway, kind of an old-school feel to the place.   Total bill with tax for reworking the 3020 generator was $127.93.

That $10 Crumblis tester sounds fantastic… inherently interesting to think about and no doubt to work with.  I do greatly appreciate and admire DIY effort.   Lately almost all of mine has been focused on a renovation of the second floor of our house, which we’re hustling to get to a useable state before a big family gathering coming up in just a few weeks.   When we conceived the project more than a year ago we hired a general contractor with the intent of having them do all of it, and the planned family gathering in April 2024 seemed a long time away.   But after some months of planning and prep work it became clear this firm’s focus was building complete new homes with limited customization options and they just weren’t going to give enough priority to our comparatively small job with 100% custom details.   They refunded our money and we parted ways respectfully, but of course there’s no way to get the time back--so I’m now acting as the general contractor plus doing all the electrical and painting plus a lot of the demolition and framing myself.    As a fairly informed guess I’m estimating I’ve avoided at least $10,000 in labor charges by doing this work myself—so I’ve happily rationalized to myself that even after buying this 3020 I’m still a few grand ahead.  😊

Dean Vinson

Saint Paris, Ohio

From: AT < <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of  <mailto:deanvp at att.net> deanvp at att.net
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 3:21 AM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' < <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Time to commence tinkering

Dean,

Your 3020 has a Generator and not an alternator?  My 1969 2520 has an alternator. I have a faint memory that JD started the NG tractors with generators and then switched to alternators. Without digging out some reference books I don’t know when that change occurred. As far as your painting goes I would say that will be a 10’ touch up when it dries.  BTW.  The tire company needs to take a long time to justify their charges 😊 .   I can attest to the fact that old regulators are better built than the new ones. I’m lucky to get a 70% success ratio with the new ones.  Generators are another thing. Just cleaning them up sometimes solves the problems but sometimes the brushes are worn out or the armature it worn out at the commutator or the bushings are worn out  or the field wiring has shorted out or opened. Or all of the above. 

Several years ago I purchased a armature buzz box which helps and 2 years ago I purchased at an auction a Crrumblis generator/starter/regulator tester.  Probably 50’s era but amazingly still works   The primary benefit is it spins the generator in a fixture so some output testing can occur in a more friendly environment.  A momentary load can be applied and it measures the output I got that for an auction price of $10.00  Then last year I picked up an Allen Instrument Tester assembly that has 4 different portable testers in it .  That cost me $30. Also 50’s era stuff. Don’t have manuals for any of it but I’m starting to figure out how it all works. Helps to have an electronics background 12 of my tractors have generators  and I’m too damn tight to have them repaired by a shop so when I get a round Tuit I tackle the generators. Actually it is kind of a nice break from all the mechanical stuff.  The repair parts are expensive enough. At least I am not paying $150 plus shop labor rates.  I’m 83 years old and still haven’t given up yet on trying to do stuff myself.  That got close to changing last August.

Keep us informed on how it goes when you put that beauty to work.  It will purr like your M. 

Dean VPtt

Apache Junction, AZ

From: AT < <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Dean Vinson
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:21 PM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' < <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Time to commence tinkering

Dean, I had a tire company take care of the calcium chloride a few days ago.  It was a lengthy enough process for a guy who knew what he was doing and had the right equipment that I’m glad I wasn’t giving it a shot on my own.   The guy got sprayed once but fortunately not in the eyes.

One of the rims was rusted enough around the valve stem I had the tire shop replace it.   The other was solid so after some wire brushing and cleaning and priming of the worst-looking areas, this afternoon I gave it a 50-foot touchup with a brush.

I also put back on the generator and regulator, after having a local shop service them, and was pleased to see the idiot light go off when I started the tractor back up.   It had flickered intermittently when I was driving the tractor around a little before buying it, but has just stayed on since then.   I checked voltage at the generator and got a reading of 3.4, unlikely to be of much use, so off it went to the shop.  In younger years I might have studied up on how to service it myself but by now I’m happy to trust stuff like that to the pros.   They cleaned up and tested the regulator also, gave it a clean bill of health, and said the old ones like this were built like tanks compared to the new replacements. 

Next step with the tractor is to put the hood back on (something of a task in itself) and then start checking and changing fluids and filters.  Sure sounded good when I fired it up after getting the generator back on.

Dean Vinson

Saint Paris, Ohio

From: AT < <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of  <mailto:deanvp at att.net> deanvp at att.net
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 2:10 AM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' < <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Time to commence tinkering

Dean,

If you don’t want to pay to have the CC removed I have used a method that gets rid of almost 100% of it. Find some long straws that just fit inside the valve stem with a friction fit..  Fill the tie up with as much air pressure as is safe. Then drive  the tractor until the tire valve stem is at the very bottom. Then remove the valve and insert the straw all the way to the  bottom of the inside of the tire or tube and them pull it back a 0.1 inch or so. If you have the right sized straw the friction will hold it the inside of the valve stem and the CC will blow out until it is gone.  If the straw wants to come out you may have to get creative with tape to hold it in. I repeat the process two or three times to make sure I have it all out. Make sure you are in area where you are not worried about killing plants. Also where eye protection so you don’t get the CC in your eyes.  It will create quite a spout several feet into the air until empty.  I have a few tractors I’ve done this to and I’ve never seen the CC corrosion problem show=up again,   I hate CC with a passion. 

Dean VP

Apache Junction, AZ

From: AT < <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Dean Vinson
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 11:07 PM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' < <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Time to commence tinkering

Thanks, Dean.    I’m looking forward to putting the 3020 to work, but as yet it’s mostly still just sitting in the barn.    Pretty much all my time these days is focused on working on the house, as we have a renovation project under way and a bunch of family coming to visit in a month.  (It all seemed like a good idea a year ago.)    But the tire shop guys come Friday to get rid of the calcium chloride and put in new tubes and stems, so I’ll at least go get it out and watch that process.

Road speeds:   Yes, the Farmalls will really carry the mail, as my dad used to say.  I once clocked myself at 27 mph on the Super M when the county sheriff had one of those “Your Speed Is” radar signs by the side of the road near my house.   That’s mighty fast on a machine like that, and I haven’t done it in years.   I also remember hearing the old Silver King tractors had a crazy fast road gear and farmers would drive them to town.

And wow, a 2520 diesel, congrats to you too!   Those are great tractors, and quite highly sought after.   I’ve never operated one but I think I once read the engines are more responsive than 3020 engines because their balancers don’t impose as much of an inertial drag, something like that.   And yes, the idiot lights are obnoxious.  They must have seemed modern and efficient at the time.  :)

Dean Vinson

Saint Paris, Ohio

From: AT < <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of  <mailto:deanvp at att.net> deanvp at att.net
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 2:46 AM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' < <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Time to commence tinkering

Dean

Congrats on getting the 3020. I think your intuition  is correct about the 3020 being your “go to” tractor,  As you well know your 620 is one of my favorite JD Two Cylinder tractors  but just in the last couple of years I too have added a New Generation tractor to the herd. But mine  borrowed the frame from a 3020 and used a smaller engine. It is a tweener called a 2520.  It is Diesel with a Synchro transmission. Almost everything about it makes you feel a little safer although it doesn’t have a ROPS which I would like to add someday when I get rich for some currently unknown reason. The ROPS has become more important to me after last August’s tractor accident. One of the biggest differences between the two cylinders and the NG tractors is their top speed.  The 2520 tops out at 20 MPH and let me tell you the first time I got up to that sped I was a bit uncomfortable on a tractor going that fast. And I was on a flat, straight, black top  country road.  I think your M goes quite a bit faster than  your 620 so it may not be as profound for you,  20 MPH on a tractor made me a little uncomfortable at first, I’m getting used to it. 😊 The 3020 has all kinds of bells and whistles to get used to and play with,  What transmission do you have?

One thing I don’t like is lack of an analog oil pressure gauge.  I don’t like idiot lights especially in bright sunshine but we don’t have much of that in Washington state. .  The seat is a huge step forward in comfort, stability and ease of getting on and off. Once I got all the settings right I was floating on air without bottoming out. My 83 year old body did not like the height of the first JD standard step getting on so I added another lower  commercially available one. It was a big help for this old man. I would really like to get the commercially available steps that are curved, huge, grated, wide and appropriately incremental  that fit right between the tractor and the left front fender but again may not happen until the stars all align in the right way,  $450 plus is an expensive add-on.   As I get even older it may become a necessity.  I’m currently in the hunt for the two front frame side weights and the first slab, maybe even a few more slabs because I would like to display my 3 bottom JD Model 825 Roll-over plow ion it. I think I have found them but will need to pick them up on my trip to NW IA this summer.  The other accessory I would like to add, which would be strictly for show, is a front, dual rockshaft.  I may have found one of those too.  I have added dual rockshafts to my 20 series Two Cylinder tractors so I like the added capability even though I’ll never use it,  Fortunately many years ago I captured several mechanical as well as hydraulic stop cylinders for the Two Cylinders and even have a Higher pressure one or two for the New Generation tractors.   The reminds me to caution you to not use the Two Cylinder Cylinders with your 3020. The 3020 Hydraulic pressures are sufficiently higher such that they will damage the two hydraulic cylinders. New Generation Cylinders are immediately noticeable in that they are painted black rather than green.  However, one has to be careful using only that indication as a change of paint color is quite easy.   The Tractor Parts catalogs clearly show the Hydraulic  Cylinders that go with each family of tractors.  It is all a mute issue if no lifting is done with the cylinder. 

The 3020 and 4020 Waterloo are considered some of the best tractors JD ever made.  The 20 series fixed most of the birthing problems of the 3010 and 4010.  This Series of tractors put a lot of other tractor brands in a competitive hole that they never recovered from. Even International Harvester finally succumbed in the 80’s but that was more due to poor management than poor tractors. 

Enjoy your new toy. I do think it will become your favorite tractor but you will always want to go back to the M Hum sound and the 620 distinctive two cylinder sound occasionally for reliving that era.  The 3020 isn’t all that much newer than the M and 620 when realizing it is nearly 60 years old too,

Dean VP

Apache Junction, AZ

From: AT < <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Dean Vinson
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 5:31 PM
To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' < <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: [AT] Time to commence tinkering

The 3020 was delivered this afternoon, so as time allows I’ll be tinkering with it… changing fluids, looking into why the rear light works but the front lights don’t (“check the grounds, check the grounds, check the grounds,” Farmer would say), getting rid of the calcium chloride in the rear tires.   I’ve got a bit of earth grading/smoothing to do in a couple of spots back in the woods, so the tractor’s first actual task will likely be with a rear blade attached.   I’m looking forward to all of it.   3227 hours on the tractor, practically new given its age, and so far it feels as solid as can be.

I love the older tractors also, like the Super M shown in this photo and a John Deere 620 parked in another part of the barn.   But I have to admit, as I get older the level of exposure on those tractors starts to weigh on my mind a little… I’m increasingly conscious of sitting up there on the seat with nothing around me, and on the Super M in particular not much below me except for the ground and whatever implement I’m pulling.   The 3020 by comparison feels like I’m nestled into a cockpit.   Will be interesting to see how the various tractors get used as the months go by and the “newness” of the 3020 wears off, but I can imagine it becoming more and more the go-to tractor.    In the meantime, sure is fun to have a new toy.

Dean Vinson

Saint Paris, Ohio

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