[AT] Need some help, hard starting CR950 Briggs

Wed Feb 16 07:02:35 PST 2022

Farmer Robinson wrote"    This morning (Tuesday) I rolled the log splitter
out into the bright sun and we  then spent the morning and early afternoon
putting up an electric horse fence.

What sort of fence does it take to hold those electric horses?

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 7:55 AM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thus confirming there's nothing actually in need of repair or adjustment;
> this is just the familiar reluctance to start at low temperature.
>
> I've got a modern Kohler on my log splitter (less than 5 years old) and an
> aging Tecumseh (20-30 years old) on one of my generators, just two examples
> of many.  Despite their design and age differences, they are both 1-3 pulls
> to start at shirtsleeve temperatures and they are both nearly impossible to
> start below freezing.  I can possibly get the Kohler going after many
> pulls, dozens... and just forget about the Tecumseh.  One thing, it's hard
> to get them spinning when it's that cold.  You can really feel the oil
> viscosity at lower temperatures (and for the record I use 10W-40 in most of
> my gas powered equipment). My guess is that even with full choke, those
> cold internal surfaces condense fuel out of the mix and they're too lean to
> fire.  This is where the unlit propane torch enters the picture.  Works
> every time, as long as the engine is otherwise sound.  I think you'll like
> it if you get a chance to try it, farmer.
>
> Reminds me of a story with the Tecumseh powered generator.  It is used for
> emergency power at my rental place.  I got a call at work one very cold day
> (teens), power was out, and my renter (a solid, decent guy, retired
> pipefitter, a practical guy who knows his way around mechanical stuff in
> general) had been pulling on the generator for over an hour and was
> starting to injure his shoulder.  He was that reluctant to admit defeat.  I
> drove home from work, grabbed my torch, and headed over to the rental,
> where we greeted each other very briefly.  I walked up to the gen, pulled
> the air cleaner cover (simple wingnut) flowed in some propane, pulled it
> twice, fired it up, then smiled and waved and walked away with his jaw just
> hanging open.  He's got his own propane torch and this scenario hasn't
> happened since!
>
> SO
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 10:54 PM Indiana Robinson <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +I This morning (Tuesday) I rolled the log splitter out into the bright
>> sun and we  then spent the morning and early afternoon putting up an
>> electric horse fence around a field of corn stubble. about mid afternoon I
>> walked to the splitter, sat the choke and other settings and pulled the
>> rope about 3 times and it started... I accidentally moved the throttle too
>> far toward turtle (science reference)  and it died.  I pulled the starter
>> rope and it started right up... We split about half a trailer load of dead
>> but solid elm blocks. It ran perfectly the whole time.
>> I might make a small well insulated room in one corner of the shop for
>> the wood splitter and the air compressor.
>>
>> .
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 9:19 AM Indiana Robinson <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks guys...I need to use it this week and maybe next week. I'll be
>>> trying some things, especially Steve's LP trick. I wonder where I put those
>>> torches. :-)
>>> One thing on my side now is that it will be 50 degrees today and 60
>>> tomorrow. I may not need anything extra. I do know that one problem is the
>>> thick oil in the tank and it not having a way to clutch out the pump for
>>> starting.
>>> I'll try to keep you posted.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 9:59 AM Stuart Harner <stuart at harnerfarm.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Remember the old fire triangle? Fuel-Air-Heat.
>>>>
>>>> With the ever more restrictive regulations filtering down to the
>>>> smaller engines the manufacturers have had to lean out the mix as far as
>>>> possible. If you were to put a pyrometer on one my guess is that at
>>>> operating temperature they are running on the lean side of peak.
>>>>
>>>> As air temp drops it gets more dense but without a choke to compensate
>>>> the mix is just too lean to light off. To make things worse they have taken
>>>> all of the adjustments away from the end user to prevent us from becoming
>>>> criminals against the regulations. I suspect it also makes the carbs easier
>>>> and cheaper to manufacture. If a bad one slips through, just replace it or
>>>> the engine because it is cheaper than figuring out the problem. We see this
>>>> in a lot more then carburetors.
>>>>
>>>> Changing to a lighter hydraulic fluid will help make it easier to spin
>>>> the engine faster when pulling the starter. I am not sure if that will help
>>>> make a hotter spark or not considering it probably has electronic ignition
>>>> anyway. Faster starting RPM could help with sucking in more fuel each
>>>> stroke but then that means more air to, so back to lean.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that Farmer's engine sputters once in a while is that the raw
>>>> fuel builds up enough in the cylinder to cause a rich enough mixture to
>>>> fire once or twice. Once that is burned off, back to square one.
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure that adjusting the valves would help any unless there is
>>>> a way to lengthen the duration. Taking out all the backlash might cause the
>>>> valve to open a fraction sooner, but once everything is warm and expanded
>>>> there is a risk of it not closing fully and burning the valve or seat.
>>>>
>>>> To get a more rich mixture for starting you could try to restrict air
>>>> (like the old choke plates did) or add fuel like a primer does.
>>>>
>>>> I have a Knipco stye heater that will not light off at any air temp
>>>> unless I use both hands and cover as much of the air intake as possible. It
>>>> lights in less than a second and then runs fine. I have tried different
>>>> nozzles and moving the igniter around, but it still needs less air to get
>>>> going.
>>>>
>>>> On the 1978 motorcycle I once had it was a victim of early tampering
>>>> with emissions on motorcycles. When new it would not start on a cool day
>>>> and it had a manual choke. I rigged up a way to inject a little ether into
>>>> the airbox that was buried under the seat. Had to put 10,000 miles on that
>>>> bike before it got over that problem.
>>>>
>>>> The idea of using an unlit torch to add a little fuel sounds like a
>>>> good one. Red Green would just slap a little piece of duct tape on the air
>>>> intake until it warms up.
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck to Farmer getting this working.
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/14/22 01:34, Greg Hass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a JD Zero Turn with 27 hp. Briggs engine and electric start.
>>>> Anything around 45 to 50 degrees and it just wouldn't start. It does not
>>>> idle good either, but the book says that is because of emissions control.
>>>> My brother has a Simplicity zero turn 3 years old and several times has
>>>> tried to start it in 40 degree and it just won't fire so it is not just my
>>>> mower. Both engines have fixed jets so no adjustment is possible. It is
>>>> possible other things could be wrong, but my only other idea is to make
>>>> sure it has fresh WINTER blend gas.
>>>>        Greg Hass
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022 at 8:15 AM Moe Fretz <tubetester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Try this site, they should be able to help  you.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://ppeten.com/forums/search.php?search_id=newposts
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 18:51 Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Farmer,
>>>>>>  Just a thought, my log splitter was hard to start in cold weather,
>>>>>> until I changed the hydraulic fluid from the OEM  fluid to transmission
>>>>>> fluid,a whole world of difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/12/2022 9:24 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi farmer:  I'd have to think you've already been down this road,
>>>>>> but, I'll say for the record that I've had pretty decent luck downloading
>>>>>> manuals from the Briggs site.  But I haven't done it lately, and it's
>>>>>> always 20-year old stuff when I do.   The other thing I'll mention is the
>>>>>> good old unlit propane torch in the intake trick.  That's my go-to when
>>>>>> they're almost trying to start.  There's spark and fuel but the modern
>>>>>> carburetors are set lean for emissions and it just seems that the choke
>>>>>> doesn't quite get the mixture rich enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck,
>>>>>> Steve O.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 7:43 PM Indiana Robinson <
>>>>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have a log splitter a couple of years old that has a OHV CR950
>>>>>>> Briggs. It only has a few hours on it but has become quite hard to start
>>>>>>> (recoil start). It is way too recent for my knowledge base... It seems that
>>>>>>> most things are these days. Apparently the OHV Brigg's have a cam bump
>>>>>>> "compression relief" I also understand that there is an important valve
>>>>>>> adjustment procedure that can normally improve starting problems. We can't
>>>>>>> find a site that gives a clear and understandable explanation of the
>>>>>>> procedure.
>>>>>>> Does anyone know of a site with a clear description of how to do it?
>>>>>>> It will usually start if it is sitting in the sun and the temp is at least
>>>>>>> 50... Yesterday at 45 degrees it "ALMOST" started 837 times... It keeps
>>>>>>> firing enough to keep you trying and trying...
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Francis Robinson
>>>>>>> aka "farmer"
>>>>>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>>>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>> --
>>>>> Moe Fretz
>>>>>
>>>>> L’Orignal ON,
>>>>> Canada
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>>
>>> Francis Robinson
>>> aka "farmer"
>>> Central Indiana USA
>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>>
>> Francis Robinson
>> aka "farmer"
>> Central Indiana USA
>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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