[AT] Air lines for shop
Carl Gogol
cgogol1971 at gmail.com
Mon Sep 13 14:57:19 PDT 2021
I bought an older compressor at auction. It sprang aa leak in the tank at the lowest point, near the drain, in about two years.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Henry Miller
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:03 PM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
Subject: Re: [AT] Air lines for shop
I have. My dad bought a compressor when I was a kid, and 30 some years latter he had to replace it.
--
Henry Miller
hank at millerfarm.com
On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 14:00, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> I get that, and it sounds reasonable, but let me ask the next question:
> have you ever seen a tank fail due to rust?
>
> SO
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 2:53 PM Henry Miller <hank at millerfarm.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't drain my tanks as religiously as I should. Too often it is
> > turn the compressor on, fill a tire, turn it off, leave it for a
> > month before I have the next tire to fill. Thus I really want water
> > to not get into my tanks in the first place. I want it to collect
> > someplace cheap and easy to
> > replace: not the tank.
> >
> > --
> > Henry Miller
> > hank at millerfarm.com
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 13:22, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> > > I am not arguing your point, but just observing that a cooler
> > > installed between the pump and the tank is not something you see every day unless
> > > it's a factory-built unit in the form of a fan-cooled radiator. These
> > > don't have water drains, either. Why try to keep water out of the tank?
> > > Reduced tank corrosion comes to mind; anything else? One problem
> > > with
> > this
> > > idea is that the air coming out of the pump is HOT. Whatever
> > > cooler you install has to be rated for high temperature. I know I
> > > ran into this
> > when
> > > I was spec'ing the chiller I recently installed on my 5HP
> > > compressor at work. The ones I looked at all generally had low
> > > input air temp rating; around 140F was max, and some were 120F. I
> > > vaguely recall one rated for 250F and the cost on that unit was easily double. Just curious.
> > >
> > > SO
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:48 PM Henry Miller
> > > <hank at millerfarm.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you are worried about water (and you are right to worry) put
> > > > your compressor as far from where air will be used as possible,
> > > > and use a
> > big
> > > > pipe close to the compressor. You want the air to move very
> > > > slow near
> > the
> > > > compressor so as much water as possible drops out there. Make
> > > > sure you properly take all the air off the top of your overhead
> > > > pipe, and slope
> > that
> > > > pipe to a drain.
> > > >
> > > > If possible put a air cooler with a drain between your tank and
> > > > the
> > pump:
> > > > keep the water out of the tank if possible.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Henry Miller
> > > > hank at millerfarm.com
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 10:19, Spencer Yost wrote:
> > > > > One of the reasons I have been thinking copper is because here
> > > > > in the humid south, water in air lines is a problem. You can
> > > > > not paint
> > without
> > > > > a desiccant filter for example. Nothing worse than seeing
> > > > > water
> > droplets
> > > > > coming out with your paint (been there done that). One
> > > > > benefit I thought copper would have would be to condense
> > > > > water quickly and earlier in the run; therefore water vapor
> > > > > would be less of an issue
> > at
> > > > > the tool end(assuming I slant the lines to run back towards
> > > > > the
> > > > > compressor) and my tool-end water filters wouldn't fill up so fast.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone with experience with copper find this to be true?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, copper is less than $1 per foot more expensive(3.46/ft
> > > > > vs
> > 2.69/ft)
> > > > > so for a run that will be less than 100' worth of pipe so I
> > > > > decided
> > to
> > > > > not sweat (excuse the pun) the cost factor between black pipe
> > > > > and
> > copper
> > > > > and just go on the merits.
> > > > >
> > > > > While continuing to look around at various options and along
> > > > > the way
> > I
> > > > > saw 1-1/2" black pipe at Lowes with an oddly specific PSI rating:
> > > > > 231PSI I'm beginning to think Brice might be right and they are
> > using
> > > > > steam rating....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Spencer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/13/21 9:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> > > > > > Brice reminded me of something. Now, it's been a while
> > > > > > since I've
> > put
> > > > > > much thought into Schedule rating of pipe. Reviewing, the
> > > > > > basic definition is: Schedule = Pressure/Stress. Example:
> > > > > > Schedule 40 pipe at 1200 psi would have stress of 30 ksi
> > > > > > developed in the
> > walls.
> > > > > > That's why wall thickness increases with pipe diameter -
> > > > > > larger diameter means larger internal surface area means
> > > > > > higher force for
> > a
> > > > > > given pressure, so wall thickness is increased to fight the higher
> > > > > > forces and keep stress in the wall constant. I pick the example
> > > > > > above because Schedule 40 Class A pipe has a yield stress
> > > > > > rating
> > of 30
> > > > > > ksi. (There is also a Class B which is somewhat stronger). At
> > 175
> > > > > > psi your factor of safety is almost 7, which is quite
> > > > > > large. I'd sleep well with this number as small as 4 - in other words, 300psi.
> > > > > > Of course there's additional considerations for the fittings
> > > > > > and whatnot, but as long as it's Schedule 40, there's really
> > > > > > nothing to worry about.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That stuff at Lowe's claiming 150 psi.... I don't believe
> > > > > > it. The people writing up the specs on their website are
> > > > > > probably
> > minimum-wage
> > > > > > drones. I would get ahold of a chart showing wall thickness
> > > > > > vs
> > pipe
> > > > > > diameter and measure the wall thickness right there in the
> > > > > > store
> > (yeah
> > > > > > I do tend to travel with a caliper in my bag most of the time).
> > > > > > Dimensions alone would confirm if this "150 psi" stuff is
> > > > > > actually Schedule 40.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know you don't really want to use black iron pipe but I
> > > > > > like I
> > said
> > > > > > Brice sort of reminded me of how all this pressure rating
> > > > > > stuff works. Of all the options, black pipe is certainly
> > > > > > the most old-school, antique-tractor appropriate. I'm not
> > > > > > against the modern materials and I would also seriously
> > > > > > consider Pex, but not PVC. I
> > can
> > > > > > solder copper way faster than I can screw together black
> > > > > > pipe but copper is pretty darn pricey these days. In my own
> > > > > > shop, the
> > answer
> > > > > > is: rubber hose. I've never graduated past the portable
> > compressor
> > > > > > to something big and stationary that lends itself to
> > > > > > permanent
> > > > plumbing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SO
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brice Adams <
> > brice.adams at gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spencer,
> > > > > > Something tweaked my memory from plumbing the Huber about
> > > > > > different pressure ratings for steam, air, and fluids with
> > > > > > schedule 40 and 80 pipe. The 150 psi may be the steam
> > > > > > rating
> > and
> > > > > > the air rating is 34 to 6 times higher.
> > > > > > Brice
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 8:21 AM Ken Knierim
> > > > > > <ken.knierim at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Go copper if you're comfortable with sweating it together.
> > I
> > > > > > did that after trying PVC for awhile. Got some AZ
> > > > > > sun on
> > the
> > > > > > PVC and it blew out a couple times with sharp little shards
> > > > > > flying around (doesn't survive impact damage well).
> > > > > > I like
> > the
> > > > > > sound of PEX but again, sunlight is abundant here.
> > > > > > My $0.02
> > > > > > Ken in AZ
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:43 PM Spencer Yost
> > > > > > <spencer at rdfarms.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I’m going to be making three new pipe runs
> > > > > > from my
> > air
> > > > > > compressor. Previously I’ve just relied on hoses
> > > > > > since
> > the
> > > > > > 50 foot hose will reach everywhere in my shop.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It will consist of one long “trunk” run that will be
> > > > > > nearly 40 feet, and then a few stub runs of
> > > > > > anywhere
> > from
> > > > > > 5’ to 15’
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was thinking about black pipe as that’s what I
> > > > > > have
> > used
> > > > > > before. But I had no idea the common, affordable black
> > > > > > pipe you find in hardware stores is only good to
> > > > > > 150
> > psi.
> > > > > > My compressor is two stage and is 175 psi:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3/4-in x 3-ft 150-PSI Black Iron Pipe
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-
> > Iron-Pipe/3371442
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess I’m thinking about biting the bullet and going
> > > > > > copper. I’d like to go with some of those really
> > > > > > neat
> > new
> > > > > > aluminum systems but I could never afford that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What are y’all think about copper? I know 3/4”
> > > > > > copper
> > is
> > > > > > good to about 1000 psi. It eliminates the rust
> > problem
> > > > > > that eventually befalls all black steel pipe systems;
> > > > > > which is kind of a plus. As far as
> > > > > > installation, I
> > solder
> > > > > > better than I cut threads :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spencer
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
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> > > > > --
> > > > > Spencer Yost
> > > > >
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