[AT] Air lines for shop
Stephen Offiler
soffiler at gmail.com
Mon Sep 13 11:22:16 PDT 2021
I am not arguing your point, but just observing that a cooler installed
between the pump and the tank is not something you see every day unless
it's a factory-built unit in the form of a fan-cooled radiator. These
don't have water drains, either. Why try to keep water out of the tank?
Reduced tank corrosion comes to mind; anything else? One problem with this
idea is that the air coming out of the pump is HOT. Whatever cooler you
install has to be rated for high temperature. I know I ran into this when
I was spec'ing the chiller I recently installed on my 5HP compressor at
work. The ones I looked at all generally had low input air temp rating;
around 140F was max, and some were 120F. I vaguely recall one rated for
250F and the cost on that unit was easily double. Just curious.
SO
On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:48 PM Henry Miller <hank at millerfarm.com> wrote:
> If you are worried about water (and you are right to worry) put your
> compressor as far from where air will be used as possible, and use a big
> pipe close to the compressor. You want the air to move very slow near the
> compressor so as much water as possible drops out there. Make sure you
> properly take all the air off the top of your overhead pipe, and slope that
> pipe to a drain.
>
> If possible put a air cooler with a drain between your tank and the pump:
> keep the water out of the tank if possible.
>
> --
> Henry Miller
> hank at millerfarm.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 10:19, Spencer Yost wrote:
> > One of the reasons I have been thinking copper is because here in the
> > humid south, water in air lines is a problem. You can not paint without
> > a desiccant filter for example. Nothing worse than seeing water droplets
> > coming out with your paint (been there done that). One benefit I
> > thought copper would have would be to condense water quickly and
> > earlier in the run; therefore water vapor would be less of an issue at
> > the tool end(assuming I slant the lines to run back towards the
> > compressor) and my tool-end water filters wouldn't fill up so fast.
> >
> > Anyone with experience with copper find this to be true?
> >
> > Also, copper is less than $1 per foot more expensive(3.46/ft vs 2.69/ft)
> > so for a run that will be less than 100' worth of pipe so I decided to
> > not sweat (excuse the pun) the cost factor between black pipe and copper
> > and just go on the merits.
> >
> > While continuing to look around at various options and along the way I
> > saw 1-1/2" black pipe at Lowes with an oddly specific PSI rating:
> > 231PSI I'm beginning to think Brice might be right and they are using
> > steam rating....
> >
> >
> > Spencer
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/13/21 9:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> > > Brice reminded me of something. Now, it's been a while since I've put
> > > much thought into Schedule rating of pipe. Reviewing, the basic
> > > definition is: Schedule = Pressure/Stress. Example: Schedule 40
> > > pipe at 1200 psi would have stress of 30 ksi developed in the walls.
> > > That's why wall thickness increases with pipe diameter - larger
> > > diameter means larger internal surface area means higher force for a
> > > given pressure, so wall thickness is increased to fight the higher
> > > forces and keep stress in the wall constant. I pick the example
> > > above because Schedule 40 Class A pipe has a yield stress rating of 30
> > > ksi. (There is also a Class B which is somewhat stronger). At 175
> > > psi your factor of safety is almost 7, which is quite large. I'd
> > > sleep well with this number as small as 4 - in other words, 300psi.
> > > Of course there's additional considerations for the fittings and
> > > whatnot, but as long as it's Schedule 40, there's really nothing to
> > > worry about.
> > >
> > > That stuff at Lowe's claiming 150 psi.... I don't believe it. The
> > > people writing up the specs on their website are probably minimum-wage
> > > drones. I would get ahold of a chart showing wall thickness vs pipe
> > > diameter and measure the wall thickness right there in the store (yeah
> > > I do tend to travel with a caliper in my bag most of the time).
> > > Dimensions alone would confirm if this "150 psi" stuff is actually
> > > Schedule 40.
> > >
> > > I know you don't really want to use black iron pipe but I like I said
> > > Brice sort of reminded me of how all this pressure rating stuff
> > > works. Of all the options, black pipe is certainly the most
> > > old-school, antique-tractor appropriate. I'm not against the modern
> > > materials and I would also seriously consider Pex, but not PVC. I can
> > > solder copper way faster than I can screw together black pipe but
> > > copper is pretty darn pricey these days. In my own shop, the answer
> > > is: rubber hose. I've never graduated past the portable compressor
> > > to something big and stationary that lends itself to permanent
> plumbing.
> > >
> > > SO
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brice Adams <brice.adams at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Spencer,
> > > Something tweaked my memory from plumbing the Huber about
> > > different pressure ratings for steam, air, and fluids with
> > > schedule 40 and 80 pipe. The 150 psi may be the steam rating and
> > > the air rating is 34 to 6 times higher.
> > > Brice
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 8:21 AM Ken Knierim
> > > <ken.knierim at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Go copper if you're comfortable with sweating it together. I
> > > did that after trying PVC for awhile. Got some AZ sun on the
> > > PVC and it blew out a couple times with sharp little shards
> > > flying around (doesn't survive impact damage well). I like the
> > > sound of PEX but again, sunlight is abundant here.
> > > My $0.02
> > > Ken in AZ
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:43 PM Spencer Yost
> > > <spencer at rdfarms.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > So I’m going to be making three new pipe runs from my air
> > > compressor. Previously I’ve just relied on hoses since the
> > > 50 foot hose will reach everywhere in my shop.
> > >
> > > It will consist of one long “trunk” run that will be
> > > nearly 40 feet, and then a few stub runs of anywhere from
> > > 5’ to 15’
> > >
> > > I was thinking about black pipe as that’s what I have used
> > > before. But I had no idea the common, affordable black
> > > pipe you find in hardware stores is only good to 150 psi.
> > > My compressor is two stage and is 175 psi:
> > >
> > > 3/4-in x 3-ft 150-PSI Black Iron Pipe
> > >
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-Iron-Pipe/3371442
> > >
> > > I guess I’m thinking about biting the bullet and going
> > > copper. I’d like to go with some of those really neat new
> > > aluminum systems but I could never afford that.
> > >
> > > What are y’all think about copper? I know 3/4” copper is
> > > good to about 1000 psi. It eliminates the rust problem
> > > that eventually befalls all black steel pipe systems;
> > > which is kind of a plus. As far as installation, I solder
> > > better than I cut threads :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Spencer
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
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> > --
> > Spencer Yost
> >
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