[AT] Air lines for shop

Mon Sep 13 09:06:11 PDT 2021

In response to the note Brad just posted, I used this dryer:

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/39053632

Some water still gets past it.

Desiccant dryers aren't cheap either.  I have seen some (no experience as I
did not go that route) that have rechargeable dessicant media.  I guess you
remove it and bake it.

SO

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:01 PM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:

> Water is certainly a problem!  We get humid here (southern New England)
> too.  At work, our 1980's vintage 25HP Ingersoll-Rand seized up this past
> spring, forcing us to the backup 1960's vintage 15HP and starting a 6-month
> long odyssey to find a replacement.  Somehow Covid affected the compressor
> industry, but I digress.  I needed to throw together a satellite system to
> keep my 5 CNC machines running independent of the anemic, worn-out 15HP
> backup.  I put in a typical 5HP/80-gallon vertical, plumbed with 1/2"
> 300-psi rubber lines from McMaster-Carr.  Added a chiller.  Added a
> coalescing filter at the compressor, and serviced or replaced the
> coalescing filter-regulators at each machine.  I get about a gallon or so
> out of the system every morning in the humid months.  I didn't use any
> copper because the whole thing was thrown together intended to be rather
> temporary, but Spencer is absolutely correct that copper plumbing will help
> cool and condense moisture better than black iron.  I would slope AWAY from
> the tank and add vertical drops with valves at the bottom for draining.
> Sloping toward the tank seems like it could work to some degree, but it
> also seems that airflow might tend to push the moisture upslope.
>
> SO
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 11:19 AM Spencer Yost <spencer at rdfarms.com> wrote:
>
>> One of the reasons I have been thinking copper is because here in the
>> humid south, water in air lines is a problem.  You can not paint without a
>> desiccant filter for example. Nothing worse than seeing water droplets
>> coming out with your paint (been there done that).  One benefit I thought
>> copper would have would be  to condense water quickly and earlier in the
>> run; therefore water vapor would be less of an issue at the tool
>> end(assuming I slant the lines to run back towards the compressor) and my
>> tool-end water filters wouldn't fill up so fast.
>>
>> Anyone with experience with copper find this to be true?
>>
>> Also, copper is less than $1 per foot more expensive(3.46/ft vs 2.69/ft)
>> so for a run that will be less than 100' worth of pipe so I decided to not
>> sweat (excuse the pun) the cost factor between black pipe and copper and
>> just go on the merits.
>>
>> While continuing to look around at various options and along the way I
>> saw 1-1/2" black pipe at Lowes with an oddly specific PSI rating:
>> 231PSI    I'm beginning to think Brice might be right and they are using
>> steam rating....
>>
>>
>> Spencer
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/13/21 9:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>
>> Brice reminded me of something.  Now, it's been a while since I've put
>> much thought into Schedule rating of pipe.  Reviewing, the basic definition
>> is:  Schedule = Pressure/Stress.  Example:  Schedule 40 pipe at 1200 psi
>> would have stress of 30 ksi developed in the walls.  That's why wall
>> thickness increases with pipe diameter - larger diameter means larger
>> internal surface area means higher force for a given pressure, so wall
>> thickness is increased to fight the higher forces and keep stress in the
>> wall constant.    I pick the example above because Schedule 40 Class A pipe
>> has a yield stress rating of 30 ksi.  (There is also a Class B which is
>> somewhat stronger).   At 175 psi  your factor of safety is almost 7, which
>> is quite large.  I'd sleep well with this number as small as 4 - in other
>> words, 300psi.  Of course there's additional considerations for the
>> fittings and whatnot, but as long as it's Schedule 40, there's really
>> nothing to worry about.
>>
>> That stuff at Lowe's claiming 150 psi.... I don't believe it.  The people
>> writing up the specs on their website are probably minimum-wage drones.  I
>> would get ahold of a chart showing wall thickness vs pipe diameter and
>> measure the wall thickness right there in the store (yeah I do tend to
>> travel with a caliper in my bag most of the time).  Dimensions alone would
>> confirm if this "150 psi" stuff is actually Schedule 40.
>>
>>  I know you don't really want to use black iron pipe but I like I said
>> Brice sort of reminded me of how all this pressure rating stuff works.  Of
>> all the options, black pipe is certainly the most old-school,
>> antique-tractor appropriate. I'm not against the modern materials and I
>> would also seriously consider Pex, but not PVC.  I can solder copper way
>> faster than I can screw together black pipe but copper is pretty darn
>> pricey these days.  In my own shop, the answer is:  rubber hose.  I've
>> never graduated past the portable compressor to something big and
>> stationary that lends itself to permanent plumbing.
>>
>> SO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brice Adams <brice.adams at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Spencer,
>>> Something tweaked my memory from plumbing the Huber about different
>>> pressure ratings for steam, air, and fluids with schedule 40 and 80 pipe.
>>> The 150 psi may be the steam rating and the air rating is 34 to 6 times
>>> higher.
>>> Brice
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 8:21 AM Ken Knierim <ken.knierim at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Go copper if you're comfortable with sweating it together. I did that
>>>> after trying PVC for awhile. Got some AZ sun on the PVC and it blew out a
>>>> couple times with sharp little shards flying around (doesn't survive impact
>>>> damage well). I like the sound of PEX but again, sunlight is abundant here.
>>>> My $0.02
>>>> Ken in AZ
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:43 PM Spencer Yost <spencer at rdfarms.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I’m going to be making three new pipe runs from my air compressor.
>>>>> Previously I’ve just relied on hoses since the 50 foot hose will reach
>>>>> everywhere in my shop.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will consist of one long “trunk” run that will be nearly 40 feet,
>>>>> and then a few stub runs of anywhere from 5’ to 15’
>>>>>
>>>>> I was thinking about black pipe as that’s what I have used before. But
>>>>> I had no idea the common, affordable black pipe you find in hardware stores
>>>>> is only good to 150 psi. My compressor is two stage and is 175 psi:
>>>>>
>>>>> 3/4-in x 3-ft 150-PSI Black Iron Pipe
>>>>> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-Iron-Pipe/3371442
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I’m thinking about biting the bullet and going copper. I’d
>>>>> like to go with some of those really neat new aluminum systems but I could
>>>>> never afford that.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are y’all think about copper? I know 3/4” copper is good to about
>>>>> 1000 psi.   It eliminates  the rust problem that eventually befalls all
>>>>> black steel pipe systems; which is kind of a plus.  As far as installation,
>>>>> I solder better than I cut threads :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Spencer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>
>> --
>> Spencer Yost
>>
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>
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