[AT] Tractor battery
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Tue Nov 16 10:12:57 PST 2021
Thanks guys, point taken, I will not fire it up without the battery in it!
Thanks,
Mike M
On 11/16/2021 9:21 AM, Indiana Robinson wrote:
> I wouldn't think that there would likely be any problem with just
> cleaning up the old battery and terminals well and reinstalling it to
> jump start the tractor and to protect the charging system while using
> it. You might even find that you don't really need to replace the
> battery right now. Sometimes charging systems behave a little odd.
> :-) Clean both cables at both ends. Don't let any of the baking soda
> get in the battery (cap off, vents etc.). Actually these days I am
> kind of fond of the battery cleaner that tells you by color if you
> have gotten all of the acid off of the case. Note that if you get
> any acid on your clothes it will seem ok until they are washed and
> then they will fall apart. :-)
>
>
> .
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:50 AM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Mike - I would say DO NOT fire it up without a battery! I'm not
> certain but I believe this is a modern-ish compact utility
> tractor. If so, it is quite likely to have a solid-state voltage
> regulator built into the alternator and you'll risk burning it up.
>
> SO
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:26 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Dennis, it is all by key. I remember as a teenager, I
> had to run a skid steer, and to cut off the air to turn it off.
>
> Regards,
> Mike M
>
> On 11/15/2021 10:29 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
>> Mike
>>
>> What turns the fuel on and off. If it is a key there is
>> probably a solenoid somewhere. My 97 Cummins 5.9 in my old
>> dually has a solenoid to turn fuel on and off. If you have a
>> mechanical lever to turn the engine on and off you are OK.
>> I am not aware of anything you would hurt by jumping IH.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:24 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Dennis, thanks for the response, mine is a Tier 3
>>> diesel engine that is not electronically controlled as far
>>> as I know. Can I do any damage by trying to start it without
>>> the battery installed? I will follow up with the dealer
>>> tomorrow as well. I will also insulate the +/- leads so
>>> they don't touch anything.
>>>
>>> Thank-you,
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On 11/15/2021 7:12 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> Jumping a diesel w/o battery depends on if you have any
>>>> electrons that control or turn on things like fuel
>>>> solenoids, etc. Old engines with manual fuel shut off’s and
>>>> mechanical injectors should work fine. Newer ones with more
>>>> electrons controlling stuff will not run w/o a battery
>>>> somehow hooked up.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 6:06 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tore out the battery today, tons of corrosion, to the
>>>>> point that the positive nut for the clamp was almost
>>>>> reduced by 75%, I had to pound it off. I thought I had
>>>>> things cleaned up but it appears that was not the case.
>>>>> I'll go battery shopping tomorrow, and hopefully I can
>>>>> find something close. Meanwhile I have the battery case
>>>>> coated in baking soda, to help neutralize the leaking
>>>>> battery acid. Question for the list can I jump a diesel,
>>>>> without the battery installed? I'm running out of time in
>>>>> Michigan, and all our water is shut off except the barn
>>>>> frost free.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/15/2021 3:37 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a problem, I get to deal with these things a lot. At
>>>>>> this point even doing simple repairs are becoming hard if
>>>>>> not impossible for the average DIYer due to the way the
>>>>>> companies are building them. There are some out there now
>>>>>> that have “sealed drivelines” where they have no
>>>>>> dipsticks or easily accessible fill plugs to even do
>>>>>> routine service and you need a scan tool to even check
>>>>>> fluid levels!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From: *Stephen Offiler <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, November 15, 2021 5:28 AM
>>>>>> *To: *Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Extremely useful and informative for modern vehicles,
>>>>>> thanks SteveW!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve O.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:39 PM Steve W.
>>>>>> <swilliams268 at frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whatever you do, do NOT use the old “unhook the
>>>>>> battery to see if it stays running” test that used to
>>>>>> be done. On any vehicles newer than about 1998 that
>>>>>> is almost a guaranteed way to destroy the charging
>>>>>> system. On most cars and trucks built from there on
>>>>>> up, the voltage regulator is part of the engines
>>>>>> control unit. Those are not cheap to replace. Another
>>>>>> no-no is to jump start a newer vehicle without
>>>>>> charging the battery or leaving a jump pack on it,
>>>>>> many of the newer vehicles will read the bad battery
>>>>>> and crank the voltage and amperage way up to try to
>>>>>> compensate for the low battery, that can kill the
>>>>>> alternator, and if the battery is failing it can blow
>>>>>> it up from the excessive charging. I can’t count how
>>>>>> many vehicles I had to repair once the bug measures
>>>>>> let people start using their cars again, after they
>>>>>> were parked for 3-4 months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now if you are one of the “fortunate” who has one of
>>>>>> the over engineered modern rolling computers made
>>>>>> from about 2017 and up, Check really close in service
>>>>>> information before you replace an old battery, many
>>>>>> of those need to have the battery initialized into
>>>>>> the system because the ECU has adjusted itself as the
>>>>>> old battery wore out, you need to tell it that you
>>>>>> are installing the new battery and what it is in CCA
>>>>>> and type, be it a flooded cell, AGM, Lithium or other
>>>>>> as they all use slightly different charging routines
>>>>>> and it’s easy to cook a battery if it’s set up wrong.
>>>>>> To go with that, many of the parts stores offer
>>>>>> installation as long as you have one that is
>>>>>> reasonably easy, there are quite a few that are not
>>>>>> due to the battery locations. OH and for the import
>>>>>> owners, be sure which battery you actually need as
>>>>>> many of the high dollar brands use 2 or three
>>>>>> different batteries scattered around the vehicle.
>>>>>> Mercedes for instance has one in the trunk, one under
>>>>>> the hood and one tucked in behind the dash!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those of you who still want to DIY it, here is
>>>>>> another tip. On cars that have lots of options or
>>>>>> anything 2017 and up, the security systems can be a
>>>>>> royal pain if you remove the battery, they can lock
>>>>>> you out of everything so you end up towing it to a
>>>>>> dealer to have it flashed back. The way around this
>>>>>> is simple. Find the feed and ground lugs for the fuse
>>>>>> box or if it has them the jumper terminals mounted
>>>>>> out in the open. Now grab a power supply or a fully
>>>>>> charged battery and connect it up to those, in the
>>>>>> case of using a spare battery, connect it, start the
>>>>>> engine and let it run for 20 minutes or so, that will
>>>>>> equalize the charge in the add-on battery, verify
>>>>>> that the charging circuit is working as well, simply
>>>>>> by measuring the voltage with the engine off, then
>>>>>> again with it running. With a power supply (NOT A
>>>>>> COMMON CHARGER) you just dial it up to the voltage
>>>>>> the service info says or at least 13 volts. Now you
>>>>>> can disconnect the main battery without losing any
>>>>>> settings or programming because the ECU never sees it
>>>>>> disconnected. Just remember that the Positive
>>>>>> terminal will still be hot when you do this, my SOP
>>>>>> is to pull the ground side, then take a heavy
>>>>>> rubber/plastic baggy and as soon as the pos. comes of
>>>>>> it goes into the bag to keep it safe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From: *Henry Miller <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>
>>>>>> *Sent: *Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:23 PM
>>>>>> *To: *at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be careful with modern cars, some cycle the
>>>>>> alternator on and off. Weird when driving to see the
>>>>>> voltmeter not hold constant. (This was a rental car,
>>>>>> I almost turned around for one that worked before I
>>>>>> figured it out )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Henry Miller
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hank at millerfarm.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, at 16:37, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Quick check is just battery voltage not running
>>>>>> versus running. If your
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > alternator is putting out something, voltage is
>>>>>> higher when running. If
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > the alternator is bad, voltage is close to the same
>>>>>> or a bit lower when
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > running (probably lower because the battery gave up
>>>>>> some juice to crank it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > over). If you are wondering if the alternator is
>>>>>> somewhere in between
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > healthy and dead, turn on as many electrical loads
>>>>>> as you can while
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > running. Alternator should handle those loads and
>>>>>> still give the battery
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > terminals something over 13.5V. (Because it is
>>>>>> supplying other things in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > addition to battery recharge, you may not see the
>>>>>> whole 14-ish volts, but
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > it must be greater than 12.6-ish to be pushing
>>>>>> charge into the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Hope this helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > SO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike M
>>>>>> <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Thanks Steve, it there a way to test whats coming
>>>>>> out the alternator?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> On 11/14/2021 2:15 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Hi Mike:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> I've heard baking soda can neutralize the acid but
>>>>>> I'd probably ask the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Google for backup on that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> A good range for battery terminal voltage
>>>>>> engine-running is 13.6V-14.4V.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Some modern voltage regulators have temperature
>>>>>> compensation, dropping
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> voltage in high temperature conditions (when it is
>>>>>> easier to charge and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> easier to overdo it) and raising voltage in the
>>>>>> cold (when they're not as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> eager to accept charge). Not all alternators do
>>>>>> this, but I just wanted to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> explain why there's such a fairly wide range.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> SO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mike M
>>>>>> <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> Tough to say Steve, I do know that I filled some
>>>>>> of the battery chambers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> with distilled water because some seemed a little
>>>>>> low, and it leaked
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> battery acid for a few days. whats the best way
>>>>>> to clean that up? I know
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> it's very caustic. What should the voltage be
>>>>>> across the terminals with the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> engine running?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> On 10/28/2021 6:08 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> The question is, what happened? Is your
>>>>>> alternator not charging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> SO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:30 PM Mike M
>>>>>> <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Whew!! got it back for now. It started right up
>>>>>> and the terminals where
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> shiny as new, ground as well. Voltage across the
>>>>>> terminals was 13.3 and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> climbing. I have the trickle charger on it
>>>>>> overnight, and will give it a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> good workout tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 1:22 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> When I checked the voltage between the posts
>>>>>> with a digital volt meter,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> I only got 11.5 volts, I left the charger on
>>>>>> overnight, and it's now up to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> 13 volts, so I switched to a maintainer. It's
>>>>>> raining here today so I'm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> leaving it on the charger, and yes I will check
>>>>>> the grounds for sure!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Thanks for the advice to all. I'll let you know
>>>>>> how it turns out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 7:54 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> I wonder how many thousands of times farmer has
>>>>>> typed that over the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> years!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> When Mike said it only clicked when jumped, that
>>>>>> simply says bad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> connection. I’m not sure why the focus on a bad
>>>>>> battery just yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Steve O.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Indiana Robinson
>>>>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:22 AM Mike M
>>>>>> <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Makes me wish for my old tractor and I could
>>>>>> back it up onto a hill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> let it get rolling and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> On 10/26/2021 11:46 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Try jumping it, but leave the cables connected
>>>>>> for 20-30 minutes before
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> you attempt a start. Even if you’ve had the
>>>>>> charger on all night. Even with
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> a dead battery it should start and run. It may
>>>>>> die when you disconnect the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> cables, but if it doesn’t, it should run, but
>>>>>> the battery probably won’t
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> take a charge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Carl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, Mike M
>>>>>> <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> So my tractor battery went dead overnight.
>>>>>> It's an Exide Select
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Performance battery, with 925 CCA model 31XHE
>>>>>> with 180 minutes of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> reserve capacity. I tried jumping it with my
>>>>>> truck but no luck it would
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> just click. I started looking online, and
>>>>>> about fell out of my chair.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Prices started at $300 and and most are out of
>>>>>> stock. Does anyone have
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> any good sources for batteries? It was
>>>>>> manufactured in 2014, so I guess
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> the clock just ran out. Any ideas would be
>>>>>> greatly appreciated. Is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> there
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> anyway to service it, or rejuvenate it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Francis Robinson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> aka "farmer"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
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>
> --
> --
>
> Francis Robinson
> aka "farmer"
> Central Indiana USA
> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>
>
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