[AT] Tractor battery

Steve W. swilliams268 at frontier.com
Mon Nov 15 18:27:13 PST 2021 

The entire idea is to drive people to electrics, run the price of fuels way up, make it harder to repair anything, reduce parts availability so you cannot repair them and add on more restrictions until anything with an engine is illegal. Then we can all set at home in the dark because the grid crashed while trying to charge all the cars, heat the homes and power everything else so there are no emissions…  If things keep going the way they are the US is going to end up loke the cities in Judge Dredd or Utopia, with a little Soylent Green tossed in for added flavor.


From: pga2 at BasicISP.net
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 8:48 PM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [AT] Tractor battery

Looks like I will NOT be buying a new vehicle any time soon. If this trend continues, there will be a lot of folks like me that will be doing the same.
We like doing our own maintenance to make sure the job is done properly. Precluding us from doing that is simply dumb, IMHO.

Phil in TX

--- swilliams268 at frontier.com wrote:

From: "Steve W." <swilliams268 at frontier.com>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Tractor battery
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:37:10 -0500
Not a problem, I get to deal with these things a lot. At this point even doing simple repairs are becoming hard if not impossible for the average DIYer due to the way the companies are building them. There are some out there now that have “sealed drivelines” where they have no dipsticks or easily accessible fill plugs to even do routine service and you need a scan tool to even check fluid levels!
 
From: Stephen Offiler
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 5:28 AM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [AT] Tractor battery
 
Extremely useful and informative for modern vehicles, thanks SteveW!
 
Steve O.
 
On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:39 PM Steve W. <swilliams268 at frontier.com> wrote:
Whatever you do, do NOT use the old “unhook the battery to see if it stays running” test that used to be done. On any vehicles newer than about 1998 that is almost a guaranteed way to destroy the charging system. On most cars and trucks built from there on up, the voltage regulator is part of the engines control unit. Those are not cheap to replace. Another no-no is to jump start a newer vehicle without charging the battery or leaving a jump pack on it, many of the newer vehicles will read the bad battery and crank the voltage and amperage way up to try to compensate for the low battery, that can kill the alternator, and if the battery is failing it can blow it up from the excessive charging. I can’t count how many vehicles I had to repair once the bug measures let people start using their cars again, after they were parked for 3-4 months. 

Now if you are one of the “fortunate” who has one of the over engineered modern rolling computers made from about 2017 and up, Check really close in service information before you replace an old battery, many of those need to have the battery initialized into the system because the ECU has adjusted itself as the old battery wore out, you need to tell it that you are installing the new battery and what it is in CCA and type, be it a flooded cell, AGM, Lithium or other as they all use slightly different charging routines and it’s easy to cook a battery if it’s set up wrong. To go with that, many of the parts stores offer installation as long as you have one that is reasonably easy, there are quite a few that are not due to the battery locations. OH and for the import owners, be sure which battery you actually need as many of the high dollar brands use 2 or three different batteries scattered around the vehicle. Mercedes for instance has one in the trunk, one under the hood and one tucked in behind the dash! 

For those of you who still want to DIY it, here is another tip. On cars that have lots of options or anything 2017 and up, the security systems can be a royal pain if you remove the battery, they can lock you out of everything so you end up towing it to a dealer to have it flashed back. The way around this is simple. Find the feed and ground lugs for the fuse box or if it has them the jumper terminals mounted out in the open. Now grab a power supply or a fully charged battery and connect it up to those, in the case of using a spare battery, connect it, start the engine and let it run for 20 minutes or so, that will equalize the charge in the add-on battery, verify that the charging circuit is working as well, simply by measuring the voltage with the engine off, then again with it running. With a power supply (NOT A COMMON CHARGER) you just dial it up to the voltage the service info says or at least 13 volts. Now you can disconnect the main battery without losing any settings or programming because the ECU never sees it disconnected. Just remember that the Positive terminal will still be hot when you do this, my SOP is to pull the ground side, then take a heavy rubber/plastic baggy and as soon as the pos. comes of it goes into the bag to keep it safe.
 
From: Henry Miller
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:23 PM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
Subject: Re: [AT] Tractor battery
 
Be careful with modern cars, some cycle the alternator on and off.  Weird when driving to see the voltmeter not hold constant. (This was a rental car, I almost turned around for one that worked before I figured it out )
 
 
 
-- 
  Henry Miller
  hank at millerfarm.com
 
On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, at 16:37, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> Quick check is just battery voltage not running versus running.  If your
> alternator is putting out something, voltage is higher when running.  If
> the alternator is bad, voltage is close to the same or a bit lower when
> running (probably lower because the battery gave up some juice to crank it
> over).  If you are wondering if the alternator is somewhere in between
> healthy and dead, turn on as many electrical loads as you can while
> running.  Alternator should handle those loads and still give the battery
> terminals something over 13.5V.  (Because it is supplying other things in
> addition to battery recharge, you may not see the whole 14-ish volts, but
> it must be greater than 12.6-ish to be pushing charge into the battery.
> Hope this helps.
> 
> SO
> 
> 
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Steve, it there a way to test whats coming out the alternator?
>> 
>> Mike M
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/14/2021 2:15 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mike:
>> 
>> I've heard baking soda can neutralize the acid but I'd probably ask the
>> Google for backup on that.
>> 
>> A good range for battery terminal voltage engine-running is 13.6V-14.4V.
>> Some modern voltage regulators have temperature compensation, dropping
>> voltage in high temperature conditions (when it is easier to charge and
>> easier to overdo it) and raising voltage in the cold (when they're not as
>> eager to accept charge).  Not all alternators do this, but I just wanted to
>> explain why there's such a fairly wide range.
>> 
>> SO
>> 
>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Tough to say Steve, I do know that I filled some of the battery chambers
>>> with distilled water because some seemed a little low, and it leaked
>>> battery acid for a few days. whats the best way to clean that up? I know
>>> it's very caustic. What should the voltage be across the terminals with the
>>> engine running?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mike M
>>> 
>>> On 10/28/2021 6:08 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>> 
>>> The question is, what happened?  Is your alternator not charging?
>>> 
>>> SO
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:30 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Whew!! got it back for now. It started right up and the terminals where
>>>> shiny as new, ground as well. Voltage across the terminals was 13.3 and
>>>> climbing. I have the trickle charger on it overnight, and will give it a
>>>> good workout tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike M
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/27/2021 1:22 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> When I checked the voltage between the posts with a digital volt meter,
>>>> I only got 11.5 volts, I left the charger on overnight, and it's now up to
>>>> 13 volts, so I switched to a maintainer.  It's raining here today so I'm
>>>> leaving it on the charger, and yes I will check the grounds for sure!
>>>> Thanks for the advice to all. I'll let you know how it turns out.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike M
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/27/2021 7:54 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder how many thousands of times farmer has typed that over the
>>>> years!
>>>> 
>>>> When Mike said it only clicked when jumped, that simply says bad
>>>> connection.  I’m not sure why the focus on a bad battery just yet.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve O.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Indiana Robinson <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Check the grounds.
>>>> Check the grounds.
>>>> Check the grounds.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> .
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:22 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Makes me wish for my old tractor and I could back it up onto a hill,
>>>>> let it get rolling and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike M
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/26/2021 11:46 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Try jumping it, but leave the cables connected for 20-30 minutes before
>>>>> you attempt a start. Even if you’ve had the charger on all night. Even with
>>>>> a dead battery it should start and run. It may die when you disconnect the
>>>>> cables, but if it doesn’t, it should run, but the battery probably won’t
>>>>> take a charge.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> So my tractor battery went dead overnight. It's an Exide Select
>>>>>> Performance battery, with 925 CCA model 31XHE with 180 minutes of
>>>>>> reserve capacity. I tried jumping it with my truck but no luck it would
>>>>>> just click. I started looking online, and about fell out of my chair.
>>>>>> Prices started at $300 and and most are out of stock. Does anyone have
>>>>>> any good sources for batteries? It was manufactured in 2014, so I guess
>>>>>> the clock just ran out. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Is
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> anyway to service it, or rejuvenate it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
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>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> Francis Robinson
>>>> aka "farmer"
>>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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