[AT] history of PTO's on tractors .... when LIVE PTO

[Mark Johnson]

Herb & all:

I remember that we had two different JD A's and a 620 when I was growing 
up...the 'old' A definitely did not have live PTO. The 'new' A (pressed 
steel frame instead of cast iron) *might* have had live PTO; I just 
don't recall. The 620 and everything later that we had, all definitely 
had live PTO. We used the 620 and 730s to power our AC roto baler.  The 
IH 300 would have had enough power, but lacked the live PTO, so it got 
relegated to rake duty. My dad said this of the original AC roto baler 
design: "I never baled with it without something breaking during the 
day. But I also never failed to finish baling what we had raked and 
ready." Admittedly, ours was old, and had been extensively rebuilt. Even 
at that, the latch plates that held the upper and lower belt gangs in 
the 'roll a bale" position had some wear, and would occasionally release 
without being tripped - either while we were running twine, or even 
before that. I always thought of it as the baler "throwing up" on us.

If the bale hadn't been partially tied, we just carried the hay back 
around to the pickup deck and ran it through again :-).

For myself, I always thought of the AC Roto-Baler as being an engineer's 
dream and a mechanic's nightmare. Lots of manual operation (stopping to 
feed twine manually, then tripping the release to eject the bale every 
time. I heard some tales that there was a later version, never produced 
or built only in small quantities, that had a way to 'hold' hay while 
the twine feed was running, so the operator didn't have to stop for each 
bale. I can only imagine the mechanical complexity of such a beast. Can 
anybody confirm or deny?

Mark J

On 5/29/2021 9:34 AM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>
> I think the earliest live PTO was on the WD Allis Chalmers. Built to 
> power the AC roto baler.  The hand clutch stopped forward travel and 
> left he PTO running.   I really liked running my old WD, just hated 
> the seat.  I still have kinks in my back from it...
> Cecil
>
> On 5/28/2021 9:05 PM, HERBERT METZ wrote:
>> Dean, I certainly agree and hope that purists pick up on this by 
>> sharing their knowledge of history of these two PTO systems.  Herb(GA)
>>> On 05/28/2021 4:36 PM Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> In addition to your question when did LIVE PTO arrive and what 
>>> tractor Manufacturer provided it.  I do believe there is a 
>>> distinction needed to be made between INDEPENDENT LIVE PTO and LIVE 
>>> PTO for the purists
>>>
>>> Dean VP
>>>
>>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of 
>>> *HERBERT METZ
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 23, 2021 4:19 AM
>>> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group 
>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> *Subject:* [AT] history of PTO's on tractors
>>>
>>> When did PTO's first appear on tractors? I assume sickle bar mowers 
>>> was one of the first implements that PTO's appeared on?
>>>
>>> I use an Allis Chalmers  PTO powered four foot tiller behind my 
>>> AC720 large lawn tractor; sure is a nice way to till our large 
>>> vegetable garden.
>>>
>>> Herb(GA)
>>>
>>
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