[AT] Kubota M5700 noise

Sun Sep 6 19:09:30 PDT 2020

For everyone following along....

Tractor is totally back together.  Runs like a champ, and quiet as can be
expected.  The 'knock' is totally gone.

If it hadnt been the back cylinder (and on the bottom) we might have found
it without totally tearing it apart.  but, with the position of everything,
the starter, and firewall totally blocked any view of where the manifold
was cracked.

Its only been a year long process!!

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:47 PM Aaron Dickinson <a_dickinson at att.net> wrote:

> All states ag parts (www.tractorpartsasap.com) regularly part out and
> salvage tractors of all ages.
>
>
>
> Aaron Dickinson
>
> Mason, Michigan
>
>
>
> *From: *Dave Maynard <dave at themaplehillfarm.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 11, 2020 2:14 PM
> *To: *Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Kubota M5700 noise
>
>
>
> Does anyone know of some tractor scrapyard? Having a hard time finding an
> exhaust manifold for this Kubota M5700. It seems the only one they used
> this engine and they dont use it anymore. I appreciate any help you can
> give me
>
>
>
> Dave Maynard
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 4:51 PM Dave Maynard <dave at themaplehillfarm.com>
> wrote:
>
> I just wish we found it before splitting the tractor and sending things to
> the engine shop and buying all the rebuild parts. The real truth wont be
> known until it's back together and fired up.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 2:24 PM Spencer Yost <spencer at rdfarms.com> wrote:
>
> Picture came through fine. Thanks for following up and letting us know the
> final resolution. It’s always nice to know how things turn out.
>
>
>
> Glad it was a much easier fix than many of the alternatives!
>
>
>
> Spencer
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2020, at 8:12 PM, Mike Maynard <mmaynard at rochester.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Here is the YouTube link of the video -
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMxOofbbJOA
>
>
>
> guess I should have supplied it earlier!
>
>
>
> 99% sure the source of the noise has been located - see attached picture
> (if the list allows them....  been many years since I participated much)
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 6:26 AM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Me neither.  Error:
>
> Access to r3---sn-vgqsrnek.googlevideo.com was denied You don't have
> authorization to view this page.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:00 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> Won't load for me Dave.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 4/18/2020 4:52 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>
> Will do Mike. I appreciate all the help and interest in helping me find a
> solution to this problem. Many very experienced and knowledgeable people on
> here and I certainly enjoy reading everything and many times learning
> things. We haven't gotten very much further with this due to some other
> pressing things, but will. New injectors made no difference at all. Just
> today however, the guys are working on  a four cylinder version of this
> Kubota  engine and sent me the attached video clip. Sounds very similar to
> my noise. Weak valve spring in the head, see what you all think. If you
> click on this, at the bottom it says "go to link" and it will get you
> there. Sorry, haven't been on a computer since I retired and just got my
> laptop back from my son who fixed it, so figuring how to get this texted
> video to attach to the email was a chore and not sure if this was the way,
> but it worked! Lol
>
>
>
> Dave Maynard
>
> The Maple Hill Farm
>
> Marion, NY
>
>
> https://r3---sn-vgqsrnek.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?expire=1587249885&ei=vWabXuqQJ-yPir4PnP2b0Ag&ip=74.69.206.141&id=8e77dec671cecdd0&itag=37&source=picasa&begin=0&requiressl=yes&mh=4G&mm=30&mn=sn-vgqsrnek&ms=nxu&mv=u&mvi=2&pl=23&sc=yes&susc=ph&app=fife&mime=video/mp4&cnr=14&dur=6.153&lmt=1587239101906161&mt=1587242304&sparams=expire,ei,ip,id,itag,source,requiressl,susc,app,mime,cnr,dur,lmt&sig=AJpPlLswRQIhAMem1LR4HFWc9FRrnjAuULSl_8Hct2cwBUMJvVjpSp08AiAKJ78mrFHMS8CdrtzfOAcROoIhrd9w_-3bWHzQSXHX_A==&lsparams=mh,mm,mn,ms,mv,mvi,pl,sc&lsig=ALrAebAwRAIgOvaXXGqqyzob2OV9veVkI84nmv2LSX6Pa1YivEL5jbMCIFnKOojXR0kxcC_cjLU_y9tvAbOImRgjUxXal3_let-J
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 1:16 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> Keep us updated Dave, this has been an interesting and informative thread.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 4/8/2020 12:57 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>
> By the way, not even sure if this has the wrong rod, just been guessing
> until we can get it in and apart. I wonder though if there could be
> residual fuel from an unfinished burn caused by yet unknown reason. Maybe
> carbon buildup in pre combustion chamber which may cause higher compression
> or poor atomization. Maybe Cecil's thought of loose or cracked pre
> combustion chamber. Unseen crack in the head, causing an improper mixture,
> or maybe even a piston pin bearing we missed. Still dont know how soon we
> can get it inside and apart, as we need to get a place ready. Don't want it
> apart outside, and this time it could be apart a little longer than the
> others.
>
>
>
> Dave M.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 12:46 PM Dave Maynard <dave at themaplehillfarm.com>
> wrote:
>
> The tractor in NY you are referring to IS this tractor. That is a post my
> son Mike made back when we first got it. You may recognize him on here as
> Mangus.
>
>
>
> Dave M
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 11:58 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> A Google search for  kubota M5700 engine noise  turns up a thread on
> tractorbytenet about a tractor in new york with exactly the same problem.
> Knock piston 5.  You might follow this thread to see if there was a
> solution
>
>
>
> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
> <https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/413832-m5700-knock-other-questions.html>
>
>
> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
>
> My father picked up a M5700 this weekend. Overall its in nice shape, but
> we have a couple things we are trying t...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 9:36:42 AM CDT, Cecil Bearden <
> crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I think the possibility of leftover fuel on the piston might be the
> problem.  Steve O may have figured it out.  It has been many years since I
> did a compression analysis.  Old Dog forgets older tricks thing!!!
> Maybe you can get an application list for the rod number??
> Cecil
>
> On 4/8/2020 9:11 AM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>
> By reducing compression, would ignition take place at the proper time?
> Would combustion be complete, or would there be leftover fuel that could
> change things on next compression stroke, and maybe pre ignite causing the
> knock?
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 5:18 AM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just worked out some math.  That engine is 87mm bore x 92mm stroke.
> 23:1 compression.  Swept volume is .547 liter, giving combustion chamber
> volume of .0238 liter.  Now, what-if the con rod was 1mm too short?  That
> adds .0059 liter to the combustion chamber, now .0297 liter, which drops
> compression down to 18.4:1
>
>
>
> SO
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:02 PM Doug Tallman <dtallman at accnorwalk.com>
> wrote:
>
> The rod being too short can't change injector timing or cause
> pre-ignition. It would just mean less compression because the piston
> wouldn't come up as far.  Doug T
>
> On 4/6/2020 6:24 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>
> I know the piston is correct as we replaced it. But James makes a good
> point to ponder, if the rod is too short, it may change injector timing.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 6:03 PM Bo Hinch <bohinch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Or the wrong Piston ( too short or tall ) .
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 12:40 PM Dave Maynard <dave at themaplehillfarm.com>
> wrote:
>
> Actually, did not check length of connecting rod and its clearance from
> head at TDC. But it's not traveling to close to the head as there would be
> damage showing. Just have this new concern about the wrong rod being put in
> by mistake, but that would have been short, not long.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 1:01 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> When you had it apart, did you check all the piston,ring and bearing
> clearances?
>
> Mike M
>
> On 4/6/2020 11:35 AM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>
> No sleeves in this engine. Someone had this engine apart before and #5 had
> a new piston and rod and bearings. The seller said it was his father's
> tractor since new and never been apart....he lied! There was more RTV on
> oil pan than you could imagine and obviously that piston and rod and
> bearings had been replaced and I thought they had been chasing the noise.
> Unless there was some other reason, but dont know.
>
>      My friend and mechanic help has a Jacobson mower he's is rebuilding
> that has a 4 cylinder version of this motor that appears identical except
> the number of cyl's. He found the rod to be the same except it a tweak
> shorter by an almost immeasurable amount, maybe .005 or .010. Part number
> is almost the same except last digit and now I'm wondering if that could be
> someone's mistake. Would shorter rod cause preignition? By the way, there
> is no part number on the rods so they would have to be accurately measured.
>
>      It's going to be a bit before I can get this back apart again, but
> hoping to have this fixed in time to plow.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 9:08 AM Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>
> That was one of my thoughts, but my experience has been that the liner
> movement was a double "thud" once on down stroke and once on upstroke.
> Cecil
>
> On 4/6/2020 1:12 AM, k7jdj at aol.com wrote:
>
> Cylinder liner loose.  Don't know if this engine even has cylinder liners
> if it does and that liner is moving you would get click. Did you look
> carefully at the head when you had it off and look for any sign of head
> distress?
>
> I would do a compression check as well.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> Renton, WA.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Moffat <rogerkiwi at gmail.com> <rogerkiwi at gmail.com>
> To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 5, 2020 7:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [AT] Kubota M5700 noise
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 5, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Dave Maynard <dave at themaplehillfarm.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Have cracked injector lines one at a time, and it gets quieter on #5
>
>
>
> But only on #5?
>
>
>
> When you crack the others the engine misses, but the noise remains?
>
>
>
> I wonder if something about cylinder 5 is somehow different so that the
> compression is higher, and so it’s igniting (pre-igniting) too much before
> top dead centre in just that cylinder?
>
>
>
> Eg #5 piston slightly higher than the other 4?
>
>
>
> Roger
>
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