[AT] 1935 JD B Testing progress.
Dean VP
deanvp at att.net
Thu Nov 26 12:25:23 PST 2020
Happy Thanksgiving to you and all ATIS members. For those of you not
familiar with this manifold and the studs that hold it in place on the head.
There are 4 approximately 4" long studs that go through this manifold all of
which have been through 100's probably 1000's of heat and cooling cycles
since 1935. The nuts are on the top of the manifold which have been through
all the same cycles. They are essentially welded and hardened to the studs
and the top of the manifold. I have a limited amount of experience with
these and all words appropriate for getting things loose are not suitable
for family ears. I have never successfully been able to remove the studs
form the head w/o twisting them off using some rather inventive procedures.
But I am going to try to get the nuts off w/o disturbing the studs if at all
possible. I'm going to start with a nut buster, if it is big enough, or use
some really good suggestions that have been offered right here on ATIS. I'm
not looking forward to this part of the project at all. Replacement studs
are available but getting broken off ones out is a very time consuming
process. And.. I just found out my friend here in AZ does not have an
acetylene torch system any more only a MAP torch. I don't think a Map
Torch will melt iron. As a last resort of broken off studs I sometimes turn
the casting upside down and melt out the remaining part of the bolt/stud
since iron melts at a lower temperature than cast iron. I also have had
success using a Cape Chisel but it does damage a small amount of the threads
but I have never had the threads fail after using this procedure. I just
don't like doing stud or bolt removal around manifolds because it is a
PITA. I will try every trick in the book I am aware of to try to keep the
studs useable.
Dean VP
Apache Junction, AZ
From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Mitchell Daly
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:33 AM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] 1935 JD B Testing progress.
Importance: High
Dean and especially Carl,
You have both provided some very good tips/points through this list of
like-minded folks. I just wanted to take a moment to thank you both and
extend Happy Thanksgiving wishes to all!! Have a safe and wonderful day!!
Mitch Daly
md31043 at msn.com <mailto:md31043 at msn.com>
_____
From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> > on behalf of
szabelski at wildblue.net <mailto:szabelski at wildblue.net>
<szabelski at wildblue.net <mailto:szabelski at wildblue.net> >
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:17 AM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> >
Subject: Re: [AT] 1935 JD B Testing progress.
Dean,
If you find that you have to remove/replace the stud, there are stud removal
tools that grab the stud and allow you to turn the stud out. The one that I
have looks sort of like a large socket with a locking nut, and different
interchangeable grips for different size studs. The grips are tapered so
that they grip tight when you lock them down. The tighter you lock them
down, the tighter they grip. You just thread it on, lock it and turn the
stud out. It's a design my father used from over 70 years ago when he did
appliance repair. It doesn't damage the threads.
Some of the newer versions are like the jaws on a drill press and they just
grip the stud tight, resulting in some thread damage. If you don't have one
you can try jamming two nuts, back to back, near the base of the stud, and
using a wrench on the bottom nut to try and turn the stud out. The key thing
is to grab the stud near the bottom at the block so that any torque you
apply is to the section of the stud in the block, and you're not twisting
the exposed section of the stud, possibly snapping it in two.
Before you start trying to turn the stud out, thread two nuts unto the stud
so that the nuts sit a couple threads above the end of the stud. Then give
it a couple of hits with a hammer, but not so hard that you bend the stud.
Good luck.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: szabelski at wildblue.net <mailto:szabelski at wildblue.net>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> >
Sent: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 09:44:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [AT] 1935 JD B Testing progress.
Dean, you got it, that's what I tried to say. Sometimes the nut will split
in two and you can use a punch the pop both pieces off of the stud.
Sometimes it doesn't split in two completely but you'll be able to turn the
nut off of the stud. Either way it will be loose enough to remove it without
damaging the stud threads. Once you get the nut off you may want to run a
die on the stud and clean up the threads a little. One thing that you have
to be careful about is drilling at an angle that results in the drill
hitting the stud threads on the bottom of the nut. If you think you've
drilled the hole at a angle that might damage the threads you can always
start over on a different face of the nut.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: deanvp <deanvp at att.net <mailto:deanvp at att.net> >
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> >
Sent: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 21:45:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [AT] 1935 JD B Testing progress.
Carl, thanks for that tip. I'm not sure I fully understand the procedure.
So I will try to play back what I think you said. Starting with a small
drill bit drill the side of the nut about 1/2 way between the edge of the
nut and the threads. A little closer to the edge of the nut. The use
progressively larger bits until running into the threads. Then the nut
should be easier to split with a chisel.Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: szabelski at wildblue.net
<mailto:szabelski at wildblue.net> Date: 11/25/20 7:21 PM (GMT-07:00) To:
Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> > Subject: Re: [AT] 1935 JD B Testing
progress. Dean, If you run into an issue where you can't get the nut buster
onto the nut, try drilling the nut off. Start with your smallest drill and
drill a hole about half way though one side of the nut, drilling a little
closer to the side of the nut then the threads. Keep increasing drill size
until you get close to the threads or until you break out of the side of the
nut. Then you should be able to split the nut with a chisel and not a lot of
hammering. The nut may not fully split, but you should be able to turn it
off with little effort.Carl----- Original Message -----From: Dean VP
<deanvp at att.net <mailto:deanvp at att.net> >To: 'Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group' <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> >Sent: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 20:46:09 -0500
(EST)Subject: Re: [AT] 1935 JD B Testing progress.I think I found the real
problem on my 1935 JD B today. I applied 30 psi ofair pressure to the
carburetor inlet side of the manifold and air wasrushing out the exhaust
pipe with all valves closed. Apparently I have arust out in the manifold or
a blown gasket between the input and exhaustside of the manifold. Started
pulling the head today and have everythingloose except the water hoses. Will
soon have everything off to see ifanything is visible. I was hoping I
wouldn't have to remove the manifold.The manifold studs will not come out
without twisting off. I'm going to tryto use a nut buster on the top nuts
and see if I can get the nuts offwithout breaking the studs. Then try to
remove the manifold. Was hoping Iwasn't going to have to do this but I'm
glad I found the problem. Willprobably be looking for a new reproduction
manifold or good used one.Leon??? Real progress today.Dean VPApache
Junction, AZ-----Original Message-----From: AT
<at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> > On Behalf Of Dean VPSent:
Tuesday, November 24, 2020 9:35 PMTo: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion
Group' <at at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: Re: [AT] 1935 Testing progress.The later JD All Fuel JD B's, which
had higher HP, had a compression of70psi. Haven't found a reference for the
earlier JD B"s. But it surelywouldn't be higher than 70. The difference
between cylinders of 7 1/2psi ispushing the limits of acceptability. These
tests were with the tractorcold. The compression test is supposed to be run
when the tractor is arunning temperature. The next test to run is the
manifold leakage test. ThenI probably will install the magneto and
carburetor and get it running so Ican do a high temperature compression
test. I may just pull the tappetcover and see if the lash is set right on
the valves first. Now that I havethe right tools to do the testing I Can
make some progress. Dean VPApache Junction, AZ-----Original
Message-----From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
<mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> > On Behalf Of Dean VPSent:
Tuesday, November 24, 2020 7:43 PMTo: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion
Group' <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>Subject: [AT] 1935 Testing progress.Was
able to get the 1935 JD B out of storage and since I had the carburetorand
magneto removed during the winter storage we just pulled it to newlocation
for the winter. Since we were pull moving anyway I asked my friendto pull me
in gear about the distance of the two blocks with the plugs outto get the
oil pressure built up for the compression pending compressiontesting. Then
hooked the compassion tester and 7/8" to 154 MM adapter upand had him pull
me a 100 feet or so in gear and tested compression on eachcylinder. Thew
results were not as expected. Got about 62 1/2" psi on theleft cylinder
and about 55 psi on the right cylinder. I expected a muchlarger difference
between the two. Not sure what it should be but sonereason I expect 70 psi
but I don't remember where that came from. But the7 1/2psi difference by
itself tell me I need to tear into this tractor., Idon't think. Tomorrow I
can do the manifold air pressure test. If I cancomplete that. He results o
f that test will determine what I test next,Dean VPSnohomish, WA
98290"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and
gospel ofenvy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."..Winston
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