[AT] Starter installation trick on the later two cylinder JD Tractors.
Mark Johnson
markjohnson100 at centurylink.net
Thu May 21 05:08:36 PDT 2020
Brian...thanks for the information on 730's and transmissions. As best I
can recall, one of our 730s had the standard 6-speed transmission and
the other had the optional 5th gear. The one with the standard gears was
always the better puller in heavy plowing - even in the same gear ratio,
but it had some transmission wear and noticeably more gear noise than
the other.
Story time: Twice during my teenage years I had to have a 730 towed to
the shed because of a steering related failure...and I had another
run-in with steering troubles as you'll soon see.
The first happened while I was disking with our 730 that had, for a
time, an aftermarket wide front end...as I was turning around at the end
of the field, one of the steering links connecting the tie rod to the
wheels broke, causing the front wheels to splay in opposite directions.
It's very hard to steer like that, and I shut it down and walked to the
house for help. Not long after that, we abandoned the aftermarket front
end and put the Roll-O-Matic back in place.
A couple of years later, on our "other" 730 - I was bush-hogging
pasture, and crossed a drainage ditch with the mower raised...now, it's
important to note that this particular 730 was a bit light on the front
end - only one weight set instead of two, and the mower in question was
a big, beefy 7-foot brand-name BushHog...so when I came up out of the
ditch, the front end left the ground by about 6". Unfortunately, what I
discovered at that moment was that the steering spindle was broken about
2" above the case of the Roll-O-Matic. So, when the front wheels left
the ground, they left the party, and two wheels and the Roll-O-Matic
rolled underneath the tractor. I don't remember any more (for heaven's
sake, it's been almost 50 years) whether the wheel set stopped under the
main case or ended up right in front of the 'hog. In any event, I sure
wasn't going anywhere.
In that instance, what saved me from being in deep crap-ola with my dad
was his discovery that the steering spindle break was not a fresh
fracture...there was oxidation and wear on the broken part that
indicated it had been that way for some time, probably several weeks. I
just happened to be the unlucky sap who discovered the failure. This is
why having a father with engineering training (Purdue AgE, 1950. Go
Boilermakers!) was a good thing, as he recognized it wasn't anything
that *I* did...
Some years before, I had also had an 'incident' with the same tractor
where the steering had a glitch in the worm or sector and would
occasionally lock up, usually in a sharp turn. While running from a rain
storm during haying season, I came into the driveway of one of our farms
in road gear, and that's when the steering decided to lock, putting me
and the tractor through a barbed-wire fence (mostly down, fortunately)
and into a wheat field. As a 13-year-old, I didn't have the presence of
mind to stop, and cut a 50-foot loop into the wheat field, turning
around and heading down the driveway without ever stopping, or even
slowing down much. The family crew who were haying that day didn't let
me forget that one for a LONG time. In fact, one of my cousins, now
retired, probably would still greet me with "Throw in the clutch and put
on the brake!" if he thought about it much.
Tune in next time for more adventures with 2-cylinder John Deere
tractors. That's all for today!
Mark J
Columbia, MO - Working from home for 62 days now.
On 5/20/2020 4:19 PM, Brian VanDragt wrote:
> Mark,
> Only 720s had green and black dash variants, all 730s had the black
> dash upgrades. The faster 5th gear was an option. I have attached a
> picture of the different quadrants.
> Brian
>> On May 20, 2020 at 5:12 PM Mark Johnson
>> <markjohnson100 at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Dean. I think both of our 730D were 'black dash' variants as
>> they both had a very 'automotive type' steering wheel instead of the
>> rather austere classic steering wheel found on the letter and 20
>> series. I never figured out exactly what the difference was in the
>> transmissions - the shift patterns were completely different and one
>> tractor had that 'high 5th gear' - they were pretty close to the same
>> in road gear and 3rd on the one with the high 5th gear was the same
>> ratio, or nearly so, as 4th on the other one. Both good machines, I
>> think one of my first cousins has one of them that he uses on his
>> in-laws farm these days.
>>
>> I did have a couple of interesting mechanical failures with steering
>> on 730s but that is a story for another day...time to do some chores
>> and get some supper.
>>
>> Mark J
>>
>> On 5/20/2020 1:20 PM, Dean VP wrote:
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> All 730D's are pretty much alike. The Black Dash 720D was only made
>>> in 1958 and had several changes from the Green Dash 1957 720D.
>>> There were several changes to the engine between the two years and
>>> then from then on the 73o's all had the same engine as the 1958
>>> Black Dash 720. There were some clutch improvements also made
>>> between the 1957 and 1958 720D's. However, the most visible
>>> difference between the 1957 720D's and the 1958 720D's are of course
>>> the Black Dash and the Plastic, more deluxe, steering wheel. I can
>>> go into more detail if needed. The 1958 Black Dash 720D's
>>> mechanically are essential the same as the 1959 and 1960 730D's. The
>>> 730 changes were all cosmetic and tied JD over another couple years
>>> due to the delay in getting the New Generation tractors ready for
>>> sale. So a 1958 720D is essentially the same engine, same drive
>>> train, same everything as a 730D except for the tin. There are
>>> purist who beleive the 20 Series were the last of the real Two
>>> Cylinder tractors. The change in cosmetics on the 30 series violated
>>> that older hood look that had been around for 25 years or more. As
>>> an owner of a 1958 720D can tell you they are real animals. Also own
>>> a 1958 520 and 1958 620. All Black Dashes. My favorite series of JD
>>> tractors. All the Bells and Whistles that one could get in that era.
>>> It was during this era of JD tractors that JD overtook I/H in the
>>> number of Agricultural tractors built per year in North America.
>>> Yes, JD overtook I/h in tractort Sales with what was supposed to be
>>> an obsolete design. The 20 Series was that good and reliable and due
>>> to I/H's mistake of increasing HP without increasing thje strength
>>> of the drive train in the X60 Series, JD became the leader. I/H
>>> upgraded the X60 Series tractor drive trains out in the field but it
>>> was too late. Then when the JD New generation Tractors came out in
>>> late 1960, 1961 models, JD never looked back and soon became the
>>> leader in Total Agricultural Equipment Sales in the US. I/H never
>>> caught back up and during the farm recession in the 80's I/H finally
>>> had to merge with Case to survive. I/H line of tractors were very
>>> good but too many management mistakes were made.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 04:54:28 AM MST, Mark Johnson
>>> <markjohnson100 at centurylink.net>
>>> <mailto:markjohnson100 at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The 4020 has repeatedly been voted "Best Tractor of All Time" in
>>> surveys. We never had one, and I never drove one...so my vote goes
>>> to the 730D; we had two.
>>>
>>> Dean - what is the difference between a "Black Dash" 730D and a "not
>>> Black Dash" - our two had different gear ratios, for sure - one of
>>> them had a 5th gear that ran about 6-7 mph at rated speed; we always
>>> referred to it as the "going to dinner gear" because it got you to
>>> the house faster, without running the risk of an upset driving
>>> through farm fields in road gear!
>>>
>>> Mark J
>>>
>>> On 5/19/2020 10:10 PM, deanvp at att.net <mailto:deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The only JD Detroit Diesel tractor that comes to mind is a JD 435
>>> which was only sold for about 2 years in the very late 50’s. I don’t
>>> know if any were used in combines. I agree, the JD 4020 is
>>> probably one of the best engineered and built JD Tractors ever
>>> made. Well with the exception of the Black Dash JD 720D or 730D!
>>> Might want to throw the Black Dash 820 and 830 into that mix as well. 😊
>>>
>>> Dean VP
>>>
>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>
>>> *From:*AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Dean Vinson
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 7:04 AM
>>> *To:* 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group'
>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two
>>> cylinder JD Tractors.
>>>
>>> Thomas, 4020s with Detroit Diesels? Must have been after-market
>>> conversions. And I’d wonder why. Although I haven’t (yet) owned
>>> a 4020 I include them in my general sense of “hard to find a better
>>> engineered, better built…” etc.
>>>
>>> Dean Vinson
>>>
>>> Saint Paris, Ohio
>>>
>>> *From:*AT [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] *On Behalf
>>> Of *ustonThomas Mehrkam
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 6:48 AM
>>> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two
>>> cylinder JD Tractors.
>>>
>>> JD seems to have a following so they must have done something right
>>> over the years. I have never owned one just observed some of the
>>> trials of neighbors. We never had that much trouble on the other
>>> brands. Maybe the neighbors were just bad mechanics.
>>>
>>> We had a big land owner that raised thousands of acres of rice. They
>>> had all JD. 4020's and such. Plus JD combines. I drove the
>>> combines when they were in a pinch for a couple of summers. I have
>>> no problem with the combines and the 4020 tractors. Except they
>>> looked like a steam engine with all that black smoke coming out of
>>> the stack. Boy those Detroit Diesels could scream and blow smoke.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 7:40:09 PM CDT, Dean Vinson
>>> <dean at vinsonfarm.net <mailto:dean at vinsonfarm.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I like pretty much all the old tractor makes, and have a red one,
>>> green one, and a newer (~1980) blue one, and all three get pretty
>>> regular use. The green one is a 620, same model Dean VP was
>>> describing. Difficult starter access aside, my guess is you’d have
>>> to hunt pretty hard to find a better engineered, better built, more
>>> reliable, tougher-down-to-the-last-breath series of tractors.
>>>
>>> Not that I’d kick an Oliver 77 out of bed, so to speak.
>>>
>>> Dean Vinson
>>>
>>> Saint Paris Ohio
>>>
>>> *From:*AT [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] *On Behalf
>>> Of *ustonThomas Mehrkam
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2020 10:38 AM
>>> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two
>>> cylinder JD Tractors.
>>>
>>> Why do you guys LOVE those pain in the ass John Deer tractors so
>>> much. I have owned international, Massey Harris, Massey Ferguson,
>>> Oliver and Miniapalious Moline tractors. All were acceptable. All of
>>> those tractors still run. :-}
>>>
>>> There was always a lot of Cussing, Wrench Throwing, Pulling etc from
>>> the JD owners. :-}
>>>
>>> Now I did it and insulted your Religion. :-}
>>>
>>> On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 2:46:43 AM CDT, deanvp at att.net
>>> <mailto:deanvp at att.net> <deanvp at att.net <mailto:deanvp at att.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just went through a few days of hassle that caused me to
>>> remove/reinstall
>>>
>>> the starter on my 1958 JD 620 high Clearance tractor. There is an
>>>
>>> abbreviation for this procedure called a complete PITA unless you know a
>>>
>>> trick I knew at one time and had completely forgotten about. My
>>> situation
>>>
>>> was compounded by a 10" shorter battery cable than what is supposed
>>> to be
>>>
>>> installed. Mine was 54", the std is 64" that makes it a triple
>>> PITA. I am
>>>
>>> referring to all the late Two Cylinder tractors, letter and numbered
>>> series,
>>>
>>> that have the starter inside a cast cavity in the underside of the main
>>>
>>> case. The battery cable is fed to an anodized copper semi-ridged
>>> ribbon the
>>>
>>> connects to the starter switch mounted on the starter. To use the proper
>>>
>>> terminology on a JD 620 it is called a cranking motor. To pull the
>>> started
>>>
>>> one is supposed to disconnect the battery cable from this copper ribbon
>>>
>>> before trying to remove the starter. Well folks unless all the
>>> planets are
>>>
>>> in alignment and the nut that needs to be loosened is oriented such
>>> that you
>>>
>>> can get to it between the flywheel and the main case there is no way
>>> in hell
>>>
>>> that is going to happen. Well, unless as JD very casually mentions
>>> that the
>>>
>>> flywheel may need to be removed. That is not a casual decision. So
>>> if you
>>>
>>> have to remove the starter with the cable still attached, the
>>> battery cable
>>>
>>> needs to be worked forward and downward to provide enough slack to
>>> slide the
>>>
>>> starter out of the cavity so one can get to the nut that holds the
>>> battery
>>>
>>> cable to the copper ribbon. That in itself can be difficult. But
>>> now lets
>>>
>>> say you are ready to reinstall the starter with the cable attached
>>> removing
>>>
>>> the slack at the starter in inserted into the round hole in the main
>>>
>>> casting. Here come the trick that will save you all kinds of grief
>>> and time.
>>>
>>> As you slide the starter cone into the hole you will all of a sudden
>>> hit a
>>>
>>> dead stop and are unable to get the starter further into the hole.
>>>
>>> What you will discover is either the copper ribbon and bolt/nut tied
>>> to the
>>>
>>> battery cable is hitting the casting or the lever that actuates the
>>> button
>>>
>>> on the starter switch is hitting the cavity hole casting or both. The
>>>
>>> cable/copper ribbon and the starter switch lever go through an oblong
>>>
>>> horizontal hole above the hole the starter goes into. So one comes
>>> to the
>>>
>>> conclusion that somehow the battery cable/copper ribbon is bent to go
>>>
>>> through that hole and then somehow pry the switch lever up high
>>> enough to
>>>
>>> get thought the upper hole. I can assure you that just plain
>>> doesn't work.
>>>
>>> BTW, this is all hidden behind the flywheel. But what completely
>>> fools you
>>>
>>> is the starter can be raised another 1/2" or more in its hole
>>> because the
>>>
>>> whole cone isn't in yet and the lever simply slides over the
>>> interference
>>>
>>> and all is cool, I will guarantee you will convince yourself that the
>>>
>>> starter can't go higher because it is in a tight hole. Wrong it will go
>>>
>>> higher. I used a floor jack to get the starter up close to the
>>> cavity and
>>>
>>> tiled the starter to get it started in the hole and then carefully
>>> found the
>>>
>>> center of gravity of the starter and lifted that whole sucker up the
>>> extra
>>>
>>> half inch or so and boom the lever and cable/copper ribbon fall into
>>> place
>>>
>>> by taking the slack out. Once I did it the right way I realized I
>>> had been
>>>
>>> here before but probably 20 years ago. And then all the lights started
>>>
>>> blinking. This trick will save you hours of frustration and heartache.
>>>
>>> I also changed the cable to a longer version even longer than standard
>>>
>>> version. I went to 72" rather than the std 64" I wanted more wiggle
>>> room.
>>>
>>> I never could really firmly establish whether the original cable
>>> size was
>>>
>>> 2/0 or 1/0 from the factory but since there are places where the
>>> cable goes
>>>
>>> though that are tight fits the OD of the cable cannot be much over
>>> 0.5" I
>>>
>>> went out cable hunting at all the local Auto Parts stores as well as
>>> Napa.
>>>
>>> I found out there is a bunch of different cables out there with varying
>>>
>>> thickness of insulation. None fit my requirement until I found some 1/0
>>>
>>> Welding cable. That fit four requirements. High current carrying
>>> capability,
>>>
>>> OD wasn't too big, the cable was reasonably flexible and it was less
>>>
>>> expensive than anything else I had looked at. Now where do you get that
>>>
>>> stuff? Of course at a welding supply store except the closest one
>>> for me is
>>>
>>> a bit of a hike so I went to a "Batteries Plus" dealer. Sure enough had
>>>
>>> exactly what I needed. Cable cut to length.
>>>
>>> So I hope this might save you some time and grief you when you work
>>> on the
>>>
>>> late letter series and numbered series Two Cylinder JD starter issues.
>>>
>>> BTW, the thing that caused me to remove the starter to begin with was a
>>>
>>> complete misdiagnosis on my part. !@#$%^&*( Starter went dead. Made the
>>>
>>> assumption the starter switch had gone bad because I knew I had a good
>>>
>>> battery and 12 Volts at the starter switch. The real problem was I
>>> had a
>>>
>>> resistive ground between the battery cable and the battery box and
>>> then to
>>>
>>> top it off an even more resistive ground (15K ohms) between the
>>> battery box
>>>
>>> and the rest of the tractor. Now why did this all seem to happen when I
>>>
>>> thought I was going to go to a plowing day . I Power Washed the
>>> tractor
>>>
>>> which I hadn't done in a long time. Rust developed immediately where it
>>>
>>> doesn't belong. So the moral of this story is to never wash your
>>> tractor.
>>>
>>> Dean VP
>>>
>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>
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