[AT] Starter installation trick on the later two cylinder JD Tractors.

Tue May 19 20:17:18 PDT 2020

8020's used Detroits.Brian 
-------- Original message --------From: deanvp at att.net Date: 5/19/20  11:10 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> Subject: Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two cylinder JD Tractors. The only JD Detroit Diesel tractor that comes to mind is a JD 435 which was only sold for about 2 years in the very late 50’s. I don’t know if any were used in combines.   I agree, the JD 4020 is probably one of the best engineered and built JD Tractors ever made.  Well with the exception of the Black Dash JD 720D or 730D!  Might want to throw the Black Dash 820 and 830 into that mix as well. 😊 Dean VPSnohomish, WA 98290 From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Dean VinsonSent: Monday, May 18, 2020 7:04 AMTo: 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>Subject: Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two cylinder JD Tractors. Thomas, 4020s with Detroit Diesels?   Must have been after-market conversions.   And I’d wonder why.   Although I haven’t (yet) owned a 4020 I include them in my general sense of “hard to find a better engineered, better built…” etc. Dean VinsonSaint Paris, Ohio  From: AT [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of ustonThomas MehrkamSent: Monday, May 18, 2020 6:48 AMTo: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>Subject: Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two cylinder JD Tractors. JD seems to have a following so they must have done something right over the years.  I have never owned one just observed some of the trials of neighbors.  We never had that much trouble on the other brands. Maybe the neighbors were just bad mechanics. We had a big land owner that raised thousands of acres of rice. They had all JD.  4020's and such. Plus JD combines.  I drove the combines when they were in a pinch for a couple of summers.  I have no problem with the combines and the 4020 tractors.  Except they looked like a steam engine with all that black smoke coming out of the stack.  Boy those Detroit Diesels could scream and blow smoke.    On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 7:40:09 PM CDT, Dean Vinson <dean at vinsonfarm.net> wrote:   I like pretty much all the old tractor makes, and have a red one, green one, and a newer (~1980) blue one, and all three get pretty regular use.   The green one is a 620, same model Dean VP was describing.    Difficult starter access aside, my guess is you’d have to hunt pretty hard to find a better engineered, better built, more reliable, tougher-down-to-the-last-breath series of tractors. Not that I’d kick an Oliver 77 out of bed, so to speak. Dean VinsonSaint Paris Ohio From: AT [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of ustonThomas MehrkamSent: Sunday, May 17, 2020 10:38 AMTo: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>Subject: Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two cylinder JD Tractors. Why do you guys LOVE those pain in the ass John Deer tractors so much.  I have owned international, Massey Harris, Massey Ferguson, Oliver and Miniapalious Moline tractors. All were acceptable. All of those tractors still run. :-} There was always a lot of Cussing, Wrench Throwing, Pulling etc from the JD owners. :-}    Now I did it and insulted your Religion. :-} On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 2:46:43 AM CDT, deanvp at att.net <deanvp at att.net> wrote:   I just went through a few days of hassle that caused me to remove/reinstallthe starter on my 1958 JD 620 high Clearance tractor. There is anabbreviation for this procedure called a complete PITA unless you know atrick I knew at one time and had completely forgotten about. My situationwas compounded by a 10" shorter battery cable than what is supposed to beinstalled. Mine was 54", the std is 64" that makes it a triple PITA.  I amreferring to all the late Two Cylinder tractors, letter and numbered series,that have the starter inside a cast cavity in the underside of the maincase. The battery cable is fed to an anodized copper semi-ridged ribbon theconnects to the starter switch mounted on the starter. To use the properterminology on a JD 620 it is called a cranking motor. To pull the startedone is supposed to disconnect the battery cable from this copper ribbonbefore trying to remove the starter.  Well folks unless all the planets arein alignment and the nut that needs to be loosened is oriented such that youcan get to it between the flywheel and the main case there is no way in hellthat is going to happen.  Well, unless as JD very casually mentions that theflywheel may need to be removed. That is not a casual decision.  So if youhave to remove the starter with the cable still attached, the battery cableneeds to be worked forward and downward to provide enough slack to slide thestarter out of the cavity so one can get to the nut that holds the batterycable to the copper ribbon.  That in itself can be difficult. But now letssay you are ready to reinstall the starter with the cable attached removingthe slack at the starter in inserted into the round hole in the maincasting. Here come the trick that will save you all kinds of grief and time.As you slide the starter cone into the hole you will all of a sudden hit adead stop and are unable to get the starter further into the hole.  What you will discover is either the copper ribbon and bolt/nut tied to thebattery cable is hitting the casting or the lever that actuates the buttonon the starter switch is hitting the cavity hole casting or both. Thecable/copper ribbon and the starter switch lever go through an oblonghorizontal  hole above the hole the starter goes into. So one comes to theconclusion that somehow the battery cable/copper ribbon is bent to gothrough that hole and then somehow pry the switch lever up high enough toget thought the upper hole.  I can assure you that just plain doesn't work.BTW, this is all hidden behind the flywheel. But what completely fools youis the starter can be raised another 1/2" or more in its hole because thewhole cone isn't in yet and the lever simply slides over the interferenceand all is cool, I will guarantee you will convince yourself that thestarter can't go higher because it is in a tight hole.  Wrong it will gohigher. I used a floor jack to get the starter up close to the cavity andtiled the starter to get it started in the hole and then carefully found thecenter of gravity of the starter and lifted that whole sucker up the extrahalf inch or so and boom the lever and cable/copper ribbon fall into placeby taking the slack out. Once I did it the right way I realized I had beenhere before but probably 20 years ago. And then all the lights startedblinking.  This trick will save you hours of frustration and heartache.   I also changed the cable to a longer version even longer than standardversion. I went to 72" rather than the std 64"  I wanted more wiggle room.I never could really firmly establish whether the original cable size  was2/0 or 1/0 from the factory but since there are places where the cable goesthough that are tight fits the OD of the cable cannot be much over 0.5" Iwent out cable hunting at all the local Auto Parts stores as well as Napa.I found out there is a bunch of different cables out there with varyingthickness of insulation. None fit my requirement until I found some 1/0Welding cable. That fit four requirements. High current carrying capability,OD wasn't too big, the cable was reasonably flexible and it was lessexpensive than anything else I had looked at. Now where do you get thatstuff? Of course at a welding supply store except the closest one for me isa bit of a hike so I went to a "Batteries Plus" dealer. Sure enough hadexactly what I needed. Cable cut to length.  So I hope this might save you some time and grief you when you work on thelate letter series and numbered series Two Cylinder JD starter issues.  BTW, the thing that caused me to remove the starter to begin with was acomplete misdiagnosis on my part.  !@#$%^&*(  Starter went dead. Made theassumption the starter switch had gone bad because I knew I had a goodbattery and 12 Volts at the starter switch.  The real problem was I had aresistive ground between the battery cable and the battery box and then totop it off an even more resistive ground (15K ohms) between the battery boxand the rest of the tractor.  Now why did this all seem to happen when Ithought I was going to go to a plowing day .    I Power Washed the tractorwhich I hadn't done in a long time. Rust developed immediately where itdoesn't belong.  So the moral of this story is to never wash your tractor.  Dean VPSnohomish, WA 98290 _______________________________________________AT mailing listAT at lists.antique-tractor.comhttp://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com_______________________________________________AT mailing listAT at lists.antique-tractor.comhttp://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com
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