[AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial

Tue Feb 25 07:18:05 PST 2020

You might want to re-think the whole DIY wrenching thing if that's all it
takes to get your blood pressure up.

SO

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:13 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> It was a evil plot to sell us another set of tools. The proof is I still
> need two sets to service my modern pickup.
>
> It sells a lot of blood pressure meds. Especially when I crawl under the
> darn thing only to find that one d at m bolt is metric causing a cussing
> wrench throwing fit as I crawl back out to get that evil metric wrench.
>
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>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 3:40 AM, Thomas Martin
> <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On 25 February 2020 at 17:12 John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Don't know why they couldn't change pipe threads, after all the rest of
> > the planet uses 60 deg, not 55 for the British threads. Can't really see
> > how it is simpler than what we use. I mean how exactly do the Japanese
> > explain such? Never seen a German print in inches either for that
> > matter. If metric is so much better, then go all in I say.
>
> Well the rest of the world for a long time was British or used British
> technology
> before Sellars came along with his 60º thread form in the US. The US
> wasn't a great exporter
> at the time, focusing more on internal expansion & self-sufficiency
> >
> > You missed the part about leaving out the bastard pipe threads, didn't
> > you? We did so much hydraulic work at one point that all I stocked was
> > NPTF, it works for NPT.  As you know, NPT covers the vast majority,
> > while NPTF will cover the majority of whats left. The scraps can be left
> > to those who specialize in oddities.
> >
> > Never needed an IH bearing that I couldn't source from wherever. The
> > only roller bearing I ever needed that was manufacture specific was the
> > plunger bearing on a New Holland baler. Motion industries finally was
> > able to cross it, but I couldn't find it any where else, not even
> > aftermarket ag parts. And the bearing housing had to come from New
> > Holland, nothing even close. That set up cost me close to $300
> >
> I think there is a slight time frame difference in our work experience,
> My experience with Cat, IH, & AC was in the 60s & 70 and included
> machinery built in the 50s. Cat & IH did insist on bearings that were
> only Cat & IH inclusive, whereas AC crawlers that used more Timken style
> bearings, could be sourced from any bearing supply co. Five times cheaper
> than Cat Or IH equivalents.
> An interesting aside was that, rarely was there a need for machining with
> AC, Cat or, IH as regards remedial repair of parts. Good designs leave
> little
> room for improvement.
>
> > We have an entire section of bastard taps at work, it has just as many
> > oddball metrics as it does english. It all depends on the industries you
> > support as to what is in your tool crib.
> >
> Around here, its fruit and meat processing.
> At the local Heinz cannery, all the peach & pear lines were American
> sourced,
> and the makers delighted in shaft sizes like 1-7/16", 1-9/16" & 1-15/16"
> with ODs to match. Only source was the manufacturer.
> Another delight was the spaghetti extruder, it had a 50hp motor driving
> the extruder through reduction gears, every every shaft was a nominal size
> +
> a 1/16" Guess where the bearings had to come from. It had one bad design
> fault in that the heaviest reduction had no hunting teeth, and it had some
> very bad wear patterns revealed on dismantling, had a blank forged in
> Australia,
> it was about 600mm with a 152mm face. :-)
> >
> > I've found that engineers don't always make stuff weird so you have to
> > buy from them, its often so you don't make a substitution that
> > compromises the design. But there are some that need a plate glass
> > stomach.....
> "Plate glass stomach"?
> Don't know that saying, although I have modified modified maker's efforts
> for the better, when their designs were found wanting. Flattering when they
> come up with the same improvement...
>
> Tom
> >
> > John
> >
> > On 2/24/2020 10:41 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:
> > >> On 25 February 2020 at 15:17 John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Fun fact. Did you know metric pipe threads are actually in inches?
> They
> > >> are actually 55 deg threadform (British Whitworth) but the pitch is in
> > >> metric. And the real fun part is that the rest of the planet can't
> even
> > >> decide how to spec them on drawing/print/blueprint. Different
> countries
> > >> have different designations for the same thing. Off the top of my
> head,
> > >> I think there are a combined 7 different ways of designating metric
> pipe
> > >> threads (taper and straight), as opposed to just 2. Now we won't split
> > >> hairs with short projection, dryseal or other specialty threads--lets
> > >> stick to 99.999% of pipe threads.
> > >>
> > >> FWIW, I have 30 years in a machine shop and have continually used both
> > >> english and metric without an issue. Its the rest of the planet that
> > >> makes a big ordeal out of it, we just grab a print and go with it.
> > >> English, German, Japanese--its all the same--until we have to use
> > >> Translate Google to figure out the notes.
> > >>
> > >> One more fun fact. Next time you need some roller bearings for your
> old
> > >> tractor and start measuring them only to find they aren't exactly
> > >> english, convert them to metric--you might ought to sit down first.
> > >>
> > >> I won't even get into European conduit threads--I've only had to do
> them
> > >> twice.
> > >>
> > >> John Hall
> > >>
> > > Well, John
> > > Europe did adopt BSP (British Standard Pipe) threads
> > > back in the 19th century, difficult to change horses now.
> > > Quite a simple setup compared to the American system!
> > > Did you know that the US has 11 diffent derivatives of
> > > National Pipe threads?
> > > As for 11-1/2 tpi NPT, I bet many a lathe manufacturer
> > > swore when Norton invented the quick change gearbox for
> > > lathes and provision had to be made for that.
> > > In fact would say I have cut more peculiar threads of US
> > > origin that elsewhere.
> > > That goes for bearings also. Both Caterpillar and IH used to
> > > get bearings, especially taper-roller, ground to  their
> > > specific sizes, so that only they could supply, at a cost
> > > 5 to 10 times the cost of a standard size! Extortionate!
> > > Competition finally forced them into standardization in the finish.
> > > FMC was another who engaged in the practice in another field.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > AT mailing list
> > > AT at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com
>
> >
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