[AT] Super M hard to start

Thu Feb 6 09:39:37 PST 2020

Back in the 80s and maybe later Case skid loaders (possibly backhoes as well) had an available propane starting aid instead of ether.I remember selling the replacement cylinders for them. They looked just like the ones for a handheld torch, except they were red instead of blue. 

Todd MarkleSpring Mills, Pa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 6, 2020 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: [AT] Super M hard to start

Hi Ken:
I'll give you the example of my JD 440IC dozer.  It has the typical oil-bath filter with an intake pipe protruding vertically thru the hood, with the typical mesh-vented rain cap.  The propane is the typical small cylindrical bottle with the torch tip for soldering pipe.  Remove the rain cap, turn on the propane, unlit of course, invert and stick it into the intake pipe.  Then crank away.  I use it on anything reluctant; my snowblower and generator sometimes like a whiff of propane.  On smaller engines I usually remove the air filter and hold the torch tip right near the carb throat.
Diesel:  I believe (not science) that propane is doing a job similar to ether, and since ether works on diesel, I guess propane would too.  My main chore tractor is a modern-ish diesel Ford 1520 circa 1995, and it doesn't give me enough trouble to have even tried the propane on it.  

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 8:28 AM Ken Knierim <ken.knierim at gmail.com> wrote:

Steve, I like that idea of propane. Can you give us an idea of how you do this? Are you using one of the small bottle torches? Is it sensitive to getting the mix right? Would this work on diesels as well?
Thanks!
Ken in AZ
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:07 AM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:

Fresh fuel is important (for a number of reasons) but here my main point is that "winter fuel" is literally a different blend from the refinery which has a higher volatility than "summer fuel".
Strong spark at the right time is also important.
Choke (mixture enrichment) is necessary on a cold engine because fuel condenses out of the mix when it hits cold surfaces and results in lean mixture.  Too much cranking without firing leaves a lot of raw gas sloshing around.  For this reason, it might be best to use low-ish throttle settings on a cold engine.
I cheat with an unlit propane torch in the intake stream.  Propane doesn't condense to liquid on cold surfaces (not much anyway) and it also has a pretty wide combustible range vs gasoline.

Steve O.
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 4:38 AM Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:

  This may not be relevant, but I will throw it out there.  My 2017 Polaris Ranger would take 10 minutes of cranking to start below 40deg.  Ether would help a lot.  I posted a message to the ranger forum and was told to quit using the premium unleaded no ethanol gas.  I switch to 87 octane no ethanol and it starts after turning over 3 times at 30 degrees.  It would be worth trying for winter.    Premium does not evaporate as well as the lower grades.  
 Cecil
  On 2/5/2020 8:24 PM, Indiana Robinson wrote:

  Hi Dean: My Super M and Super MTA both tend to be cold natured at start up and when working hard prone to dieseling at shut down. Both have thin-wall sleeves and oversized pistons. To start up "cold" I typically open the throttle maybe about 5 % or less and use the choke heavily. For the dieseling I keep the idle speed backed off so that the throttle plate shuts completely when I shove the lever all the way forward. I keep a small paint mark on the quadrant back a few notches as an idling setting. They can't diesel if they can't get any fuel.  :-)  It has always served me well. 

  .

  On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 8:29 PM Dean Vinson <dean at vinsonfarm.net> wrote:

   My Super M is hard to start in cold weather.   It always does start, eventually, but if the weather is cold it’ll take maybe five or six or eight attempts, with each one resulting in a few pops or a second or two of running before it dies.   I always think I just need to find the right amount of choke vs throttle, but I don’t know whether I’m really finding it or whether the engine just gets warmed up enough by the repeated attempts that finally it settles down and is just plain ready to start.   In warm weather it typically fires right up with no hesitation.   12 volt battery is well charged, and a few years ago I had the starter rewound for 12 volts, so there’s no shortage of cranking power and it turns the engine over nice and fast (but not crazy fast like it used to with the 12V battery on the original 6-volt starter).       It does have pretty high compression, resulting I assume from a rebuild shortly before I bought the tractor ten years or so ago, and which helps it put out about 55 hp on the dyno.  I can’t remember the compression numbers right now, but I remember checking compression after buying the tractor and thinking “Wow, those are some high numbers, and all four cylinders are just about dead-on equal.”   When hot the engine typically diesels at shut-down unless I let it sit and idle for several minutes, so I’m wondering if the hard cold starting is related.    Anybody have similar experiences or recommendations?   The other thing I was wondering is if maybe the non sequitur is out of adjustment, but I can’t find the factory specs for it in the service manual.   Dean Vinson Saint Paris, Ohio       _______________________________________________
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 Francis Robinson
 aka "farmer"
 Central Indiana USA
 robinson46176 at gmail.com

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