[AT] Update: '47 B - First starting attempt

[Cecil Bearden]

Since I got a Mig welder I haven't used acetylene for welding in over 10 
years.   I do some brazing on Cast iron or real thin metal sometimes, 
and I use my cutting torch.  It is an old Rego 70deg straight cutter 
with a propane tip.    I keep a couple of acetylene bottles around, but 
don't use them unless I have to have extreme heat such as a rosebud 
tip...  I learned to braze with propane using the cutting torch and 
cutting with propane, and I prefer propane for cutting....

Just my $0.02
Cecil

On 12/13/2020 4:52 PM, Dean VP wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Good progress getting the 47B running. I'm assuming the hole in the manifold
> is on the exhaust side of the manifold. I doubt it would run at all if it
> was the intake side. So....  does it really matter if it makes a little
> extra noise temporarily?  Or just press something in there until later?   If
> it was on the intake side then I'm surprised you got it running.   Now
> relative to removing the nuts on the studs for the manifold.  Keep in mind
> that even after removal of the nuts the studs will still have to be removed
> to get the manifold off the head without having to remove everything above
> the manifold such as the fan shaft gas tank and hood.  If you try to remove
> the  studs while the manifold is still on the risk of twisting them off is
> even higher than you might want to have.    Some people have been known to
> lift the manifold up enough so that the studs can be cutoff high enough for
> later removal and still be able to remove the manifold without removing
> everything above it.  But drilling out the studs and getting the remaining
> studs out while the head is still on is a real PITA.  If you can get the
> nuts off without twisting the studs off and the studs look pretty good I
> would recommend removing everything above the manifold.
>
>   But.... Sometimes it requires removing the radiator too to slide the fan
> shaft forward enough out of the governor to get it out.  In any of the
> options you are looking at a lot of work to change the manifold.  Or pull
> the head and manifold out together and work on the combination on the bench
> which is what I did on my 1935 JD B.  The reason I took that route was
> two-fold. I knew the manifold bolts were going to twist off since they had
> been in there for 75 years AND the compression test results had shown a
> difference of 55 vs 63 psi. I wanted to see what was causing that.  Turns
> out it was a good decision as I found valves not seating properly due to
> valve guides that were in really bad shape.  The Valves themselves were like
> new. A PO had been in this engine recently.  Before you make any decisions
> .... price out what ever gaskets you might need.    I was blown away by the
> current cost of gaskets. The head gasket alone cost $79 for the 35 B.
>
> You made a couple comments that I hope are totally unrelated. I assume since
> you are in cold country you were draining condensation out of the crankcase
> oil that had not been caused your radiator to be low on coolant.
>
> BTW,   be a little careful how much pressure you put on the manifold stud
> nuts since the studs may be rusted thin.  On my situation I wanted to try to
> save the studs because I knew they were going to be broken off on removal so
> I went out of the  way to avoid twisting them off by using an air driven die
> grinder to cut off the sides of the nuts without ruining the threads and
> then used a chisel to break off what was left of the nuts. That worked as I
> saved all 4 studs. But when I got the manifold off the studs were in such
> bad shape they have to be replaced anyway.  The borrowed shop I am working
> in does not have an acetylene welding setup to heat and cool the studs so I
> had to farm out their removal which is costing me an arm and a leg if they
> twist off.   Which I would predict there will be a 99% chance of happening.
> At home I would have talked them myself.  The owner of the shop I'm working
> on is downsizing and the Acetylene torch was on the get rid of list. In my
> shop it would be close to near the last thing I got rid of.   But he does
> mostly cosmetic restations on N Series Fords and Fergusons.  He had a friend
> who did all his welding. I don't weld much with mine but it is used often
> for "convincing" duties.
>
> Good luck with you project and keep us informed with your progress.
>
>
> Dean VP
> Apache Junction, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of STEVE ALLEN.
> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 2:08 PM
> To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> Subject: [AT] Update: '47 B - First starting attempt
>
> It has been a while!  My wife is slowly recovering from her broken
> leg/ankle, and I am able to get outside the house a little more these days.
>
> So today, though it is chilly and misty, the older boy and I got out and
> finished prep on the B.   We began my mounting the sediment bowl and the
> fuel line.  A small snag:  the bail for the glass bowl itself wouldn't fit
> because of the intake, but we selected another bail from another bowl, and
> it fit.  We put in fresh plugs, adjusted the wires, and fitted the new mag
> cap.  We drained a little bit of water out of the crankcase, topped off the
> oil, and put a gallon of coolant in to bring the level up higher.  We
> temporarily stole the battery off the '49 A and hooked it up.  We put in
> some gas, and the moment of truth was at hand.
>
> We cranked some while playing with the choke, and it popped but wouldn't
> catch.  We pulled the plugs out to see if it was flooding, but there was
> some carbon crap on them.  We cleaned them off and cranked some more.
>
> The pops became continuous:  he was running!
>
> I spent some time playing with the idle and power needle, working to dial
> the carb in a bit, but the cold was against me, and we ran out of the gas we
> had put in before I had them figured out, but we can't be too far off.
>
> We found one definite problem:  the manifold has a hole in it :-(  It's
> about a 1/4' wide and 1/2" long on the inside of the curve on the flywheel
> side of the tractor.  So we're going to find out if the anti-seize I put on
> the stud threads all those years ago worked ;-)  Off course, we'll clean
> them up and heat them first!
>
> In the meantime, I wonder if I can contrive to put a temporary plug in place
> with JB weld, at least long enough to be able to move (after we put the
> battery box/seat and platform back on) out of the shed so we can do
> something about the floor.  Has anybody had any luck with such a project?
>
> Anyway, I was not convinced he'd start today, but he did, and that makes me
> happy.  We have more work to do, but we can be fairly certain it won't be
> wasted effort now.
>
> A Good Tractor Day!
>
> The "original" Steve Allen
>
>
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