[AT] Kubota M5700 noise
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Sat Apr 18 10:16:51 PDT 2020
Keep us updated Dave, this has been an interesting and informative thread.
Mike M
On 4/8/2020 12:57 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
> By the way, not even sure if this has the wrong rod, just been
> guessing until we can get it in and apart. I wonder though if there
> could be residual fuel from an unfinished burn caused by yet unknown
> reason. Maybe carbon buildup in pre combustion chamber which may cause
> higher compression or poor atomization. Maybe Cecil's thought of loose
> or cracked pre combustion chamber. Unseen crack in the head, causing
> an improper mixture, or maybe even a piston pin bearing we missed.
> Still dont know how soon we can get it inside and apart, as we need to
> get a place ready. Don't want it apart outside, and this time it could
> be apart a little longer than the others.
>
> Dave M.
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 12:46 PM Dave Maynard <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>> wrote:
>
> The tractor in NY you are referring to IS this tractor. That is a
> post my son Mike made back when we first got it. You may recognize
> him on here as Mangus.
>
> Dave M
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 11:58 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam
> <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net <mailto:tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>
> A Google search for kubota M5700 engine noise turns up a
> thread on tractorbytenet about a tractor in new york with
> exactly the same problem. Knock piston 5. You might follow
> this thread to see if there was a solution
>
> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
> <https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/413832-m5700-knock-other-questions.html>
>
>
>
>
>
> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
>
> My father picked up a M5700 this weekend. Overall its in nice
> shape, but we have a couple things we are trying t...
>
> <https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/413832-m5700-knock-other-questions.html>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 9:36:42 AM CDT, Cecil Bearden
> <crbearden at copper.net <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>> wrote:
>
>
> I think the possibility of leftover fuel on the piston might
> be the problem. Steve O may have figured it out. It has been
> many years since I did a compression analysis. Old Dog forgets
> older tricks thing!!!
> Maybe you can get an application list for the rod number??
> Cecil
>
> On 4/8/2020 9:11 AM, Dave Maynard wrote:
> By reducing compression, would ignition take place at the
> proper time? Would combustion be complete, or would there be
> leftover fuel that could change things on next compression
> stroke, and maybe pre ignite causing the knock?
>
> Dave
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 5:18 AM Stephen Offiler
> <soffiler at gmail.com <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I just worked out some math. That engine is 87mm bore x
> 92mm stroke. 23:1 compression. Swept volume is .547
> liter, giving combustion chamber volume of .0238 liter.
> Now, what-if the con rod was 1mm too short? That adds
> .0059 liter to the combustion chamber, now .0297 liter,
> which drops compression down to 18.4:1
>
> SO
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:02 PM Doug Tallman
> <dtallman at accnorwalk.com <mailto:dtallman at accnorwalk.com>>
> wrote:
>
> The rod being too short can't change injector timing
> or cause pre-ignition. It would just mean less
> compression because the piston wouldn't come up as
> far. Doug T
>
> On 4/6/2020 6:24 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>> I know the piston is correct as we replaced it. But
>> James makes a good point to ponder, if the rod is too
>> short, it may change injector timing.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 6:03 PM Bo Hinch
>> <bohinch at gmail.com <mailto:bohinch at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Or the wrong Piston ( too short or tall ) .
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 12:40 PM Dave Maynard
>> <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
>> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Actually, did not check length of connecting
>> rod and its clearance from head at TDC. But
>> it's not traveling to close to the head as
>> there would be damage showing. Just have this
>> new concern about the wrong rod being put in
>> by mistake, but that would have been short,
>> not long.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 1:01 PM Mike M
>> <meulenms at gmx.com <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> When you had it apart, did you check all
>> the piston,ring and bearing clearances?
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>>
>> On 4/6/2020 11:35 AM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>>> No sleeves in this engine. Someone had
>>> this engine apart before and #5 had a
>>> new piston and rod and bearings. The
>>> seller said it was his father's tractor
>>> since new and never been apart....he
>>> lied! There was more RTV on oil pan than
>>> you could imagine and obviously that
>>> piston and rod and bearings had been
>>> replaced and I thought they had been
>>> chasing the noise. Unless there was some
>>> other reason, but dont know.
>>> My friend and mechanic help has a
>>> Jacobson mower he's is rebuilding that
>>> has a 4 cylinder version of this motor
>>> that appears identical except the number
>>> of cyl's. He found the rod to be the
>>> same except it a tweak shorter by an
>>> almost immeasurable amount, maybe .005
>>> or .010. Part number is almost the same
>>> except last digit and now I'm wondering
>>> if that could be someone's mistake.
>>> Would shorter rod cause preignition? By
>>> the way, there is no part number on the
>>> rods so they would have to be accurately
>>> measured.
>>> It's going to be a bit before I can
>>> get this back apart again, but hoping to
>>> have this fixed in time to plow.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 9:08 AM Cecil
>>> Bearden <crbearden at copper.net
>>> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That was one of my thoughts, but my
>>> experience has been that the liner
>>> movement was a double "thud" once on
>>> down stroke and once on upstroke.
>>> Cecil
>>>
>>> On 4/6/2020 1:12 AM, k7jdj at aol.com
>>> <mailto:k7jdj at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Cylinder liner loose. Don't know if
>>>> this engine even has cylinder
>>>> liners if it does and that liner is
>>>> moving you would get click. Did you
>>>> look carefully at the head when you
>>>> had it off and look for any sign of
>>>> head distress?
>>>> I would do a compression check as well.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> Renton, WA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Roger Moffat
>>>> <rogerkiwi at gmail.com>
>>>> <mailto:rogerkiwi at gmail.com>
>>>> To: Antique Tractor Email
>>>> Discussion Group
>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> Sent: Sun, Apr 5, 2020 7:43 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Kubota M5700 noise
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 5, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Dave
>>>>> Maynard <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
>>>>> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Have cracked injector lines one at
>>>>> a time, and it gets quieter on #5
>>>>
>>>> But only on #5?
>>>>
>>>> When you crack the others the
>>>> engine misses, but the noise remains?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if something about
>>>> cylinder 5 is somehow different so
>>>> that the compression is higher, and
>>>> so it’s igniting (pre-igniting) too
>>>> much before top dead centre in just
>>>> that cylinder?
>>>>
>>>> Eg #5 piston slightly higher than
>>>> the other 4?
>>>>
>>>> Roger
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