[AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

Sat Apr 4 16:35:03 PDT 2020

Jim, 

I will agree that 538609R2 is the correct part number for the box. I went the the Case dealer’s web site and figured out that when they said it was no longer available, they meant they didn’t have any original 538609R2 boxes in stock. When they said that the 538609RGV was available, they meant that that’s the one they sell. As I indicated before, I misread my scribbled notes and typed in the 351336R12 part number for the battery cover in error.

I went to eBay and looked for 538609R2 battery boxes and found plenty of them available.

So it got me to thinking about what I have and why it mounts differently. When I purchased the Cub, the PO’s brother told me that the PO worked for Westinghouse as a welder for all most all his life, and was one of their top welders. So I started to think that maybe he went to replace the battery box due it being rusted out, and couldn’t get the old bolts out. So maybe he took a new replacement box and modified it to mount in a different manner (three studs through the floor pan).

I haven’t put the battery in yet, so I went and took a look at the bottom of the box, expecting to see the four bolt holes in the bottom of the box. No such thing. So I don't have a modified 538609R2 box. I thought that maybe being a welder he just welded a box of his own, but that also doesn’t look like the case. There are definite bends made by machine and not by hand. The bottom of the box is most definitely machine formed, so this is not a case of somebody welding up some flat plates to make a box.

Now I’m guessing that this is an aftermarket box built to be a non-direct replacement for the 538609R2 box, maybe because of the difficulty of removing the original four mounting bolts once the original box rusts away (???). There are three studs on the bottom of the box, each stud has a welded on spacer to allow for the box to clear the remnants of the old four mounting bolts. I looked at pictures of other floor pans and haven’t seen any that had the three required holes in them. So the floor pan had to be drilled to accommodate the three studs.

Whatever the case may be, I’m leaving the box as is because that’s how I got it, and the fact that I’ve already got it painted and installed. It’s also mounted in the exact same location as a 538609R2 box would be. If the correct police want to check on how it’s mounted, they’ll have to crawl underneath the tractor to see.

Thanks again to everybody who looked into this and tried to help.

Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Becker <mr.jebecker at gmail.com>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Sat, 04 Apr 2020 15:36:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

I don't think the box ever changed from 1947 thrugh 1979.
"GV" tacked on the end of a CaseIH part number indicates it is part of the 
"Gold Value" line.  It may be an alternative to a more expensive original 
part or may be all that is available.  That line is "Case IH's competitive 
answer to repairing your heritage tractor."  Which I think may translate to 
something like -- We saw how much was being sold by Valu-Bilt for these old 
tractors and decided to get into that business.

Part 351336R12 is one of the box lids, which is not relevant to the current 
discussion.

The last hard copy parts catalog was issued 8/79.  It was scanned for the 
on-line catalog.  The on-line catalog has some part list updates.  I also 
have access to catalogs from 1970 and 1975.

351330R11 was the original box, a number not listed in the online.  It is 
the only number listed through the 1970 catalog but is not in the 1975 
catalog.  So any Cub from 1947 through at least 1970 used that box.

538609R1 is the only version listed in the 1975 catalog.  So that change was 
between '70 and '75.  There is no obvious difference between this and 
351330R11.  The catalog says "Box w/product graphic" whereas the old one 
said "Box".  The new part number may have only indicated that the part came 
with a warning sticker.  There were some electrical changes made in 1972, 
adding a key start and a clutch interlock.  But this didn't require changes 
to the box.

538609R2 is listed in the 1979 catalog.  The incremented revision number 
indicates some (probably minor) change from 1975.  I suspect a change to the 
safety sicker.

538609R2GV is listed on-line.  It is a Gold Value substitute part and the 
only thing currently available from CaseIH.

If you want to see some good pictures of a battery box, look here:
http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gel/battbox_001.htm

Jim Becker

-----Original Message----- 
From: szabelski at wildblue.net
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 12:48 PM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

I have to make a correction to the previous post, I misread not only my 
notes that I jotted done from the on line parts list, but I read the parts 
list wrong to boot.

The earlier version of the battery box should have been 538609R2, and the 
later version should have been 538609RGV. The 538609R2 is not available any 
more, the 538609RGV is available.

Sorry for any confusion.

Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: szabelski at wildblue.net
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Sat, 04 Apr 2020 13:18:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

I took a look at an online parts list that a local Case dealer has on line 
for the Cub, it’s an electronic version of the original parts manual that 
they scanned and added a parts look up table to. They reference two battery 
box part numbers:

538609R2 -  Terminal Box W/Production Graphic

351336R12 - Value, Terminal Box

>From the scanned manual sheets the one I have looks like the 538609R2. They 
didn’t have an actual picture of the 538609R2 box, but had a picture of the 
351336R12 box that appears to show the bottom ribs that you referenced.

They also reference tractor serial numbers, but I don’t have a serial tag on 
the Cub, so I can’t tell which the “as supplied” box should be. Since the 
box I have was bolted over the apparent original box, I’m guessing that the 
351336R12 box was the original, and the 538609R2 was a later version. The 
part numbers would also tend to support that the box I have is a later 
version.

Either way, the mystery has been apparently solved and I appreciate 
everybody’s efforts in answering the question.

By the way, since you came up with the apparent correct answer, you win the 
prize. Just send me your address and I’ll send you the two pieces of the 
original battery box.😜

Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Becker <mr.jebecker at gmail.com>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Sat, 04 Apr 2020 10:33:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

I'm not aware of any noteworthy changes to the battery box.  The 12-volt
tractors used a different lid.  But even then the box remained the same.
Maybe there is just so little remaining of your original and the one I
photographed that it looks different.

Jim Becker

-----Original Message----- 
From: szabelski at wildblue.net
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 8:41 AM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

That would make sense since the two pieces used the four bolts shown in your
picture. It would also explain why the heads of the bolts were so far gone
(battery acid eating them away). There wouldn’t be any other reason for the
four bolts, and the thinness of the two pieces wouldn’t provide any real
strength for any other use.

All the manuals I have show the existing style of battery box that I
currently have. So this must have been a very early version of a battery
box.

Thanks for the response, I figured somebody would come up with an answer.

Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Becker <mr.jebecker at gmail.com>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 23:15:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

I sent a reply to the list with an attached image.  Hopefully it will get
through after a while.  In the meanwhile, here is what the reply said
without the image:

What you have there is the remaining piece of a battery box.  There
certainly isn't much left of it.  Here (if it goes through) is  picture of
the bottom of another one that isn't quite as far gone.  Note that in this
one about 2/3 of the bottom is still there.  All that remains in your
picture is the lower portion of one bottom rib of the box.  The bolt size
and spacing in my picture agrees with your picture.  Your piece seems to
somewhat curve up on an edge that matches the rib in mine.

I think that whatever you currently have for a battery box was installed
over the top of the original.

Follow the link Dean posted to see what the original looked like.
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=82882

Jim Becker

-----Original Message----- 
From: szabelski at wildblue.net
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2020 5:21 PM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

Hard to do at the moment since they were attached to the four bolts under
the battery box, and I’ve already reinstalled the battery box. I’ll take a
look tomorrow and see if I can maybe get a shot from behind the Cub. Maybe I
can get a picture from a maintenance manual and just indicate were they
were.

Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason <dejoodster at gmail.com>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:44:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Fwd: Pictures

A photo of where it goes on the tractor would help greatly

Jason

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 12:09 PM <szabelski at wildblue.net> wrote:

> Hope this one works.
>
> Carl
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: szabelski at wildblue.net
> To: Antique Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 15:38:52 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Fwd: Pictures
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: Susan Szabelski <szabelski.c.s at gmail.com>
> To: Szabelski at wildblue.net
> Sent: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 15:10:16 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Pictures
>
>
>
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