[AT] Tractor safety

Sun Sep 1 17:47:42 PDT 2019

Hi Dean:
You or some other long time members here might recall (or maybe not)  :-)
me having a friendly disagreement years ago with my old friend George
Willer with me trying to make the exact same point about not encouraging
wide front operators to become over confident on hills.
Tractors (or similar machines) are fairly universal all around the country.
School physics textbooks should cover basic physics of such machinery
roll-overs. It need not be lengthy but huge numbers of students will end up
operating tractors, construction equipment or even just riding lawnmowers.
People generally just do not understand the factors involved. I fairly
recently heard someone say that "you can't roll a lawn tractor"... Yes you
can.
I have both wide and narrow fronts. In both cases I like them to be as
stable as "reasonably" possible. Since I was using them in actual farming I
chose in most cases to have the wheels out as wide as needed for straddling
corn rows year-round and kept the rears ballasted.
One day many many years ago I was working with a good neighbor on a shared
fence when he started screaming and yelling at one of his sons who was
bush-hogging that pasture field near the creek. When I turned around I saw
that his son was mowing with their MF-165 with the loader all the way up.
He did get his attention and read him the riot act about having the bucket
in the air. He was yelling so loud that even I was looking for a bucket to
put down...  :-)

.

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 7:35 PM Mike 1countryguy <mdo_1 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Think first.
>
> Years ago was camping at a new campground Toledo area on the lake.  Moved
> our camper in and set up for the week and watched an employee rotary mowing
> the grounds with a JD utility tractor.  Loader was at max height.  I drove
> to the ranger station and told them I was not going to watch them pull a
> guy out from under a tractor.   Loader came down to almost ground level
> very quickly and continued mowing.
>
> I loaded manure out of barns with a WD AC narrow front and no power
> steering as a teenager.   Also used a IHl M tricycle with a tempelton
> loader (made in Lexington, Oh).  Never had an issue.   But, had older
> neighbor killed on an M IH (narrow frt) moving rocks.  Another neighbor was
> moving rocks around his house M IH and rolled it.  That was 40 yrs ago and
> he is still suffering hip proble*ms.*
>
> My brother Rolled a 4 wheel drive pay loader (Michigan).  He had the
> bucket up to see under it.   He was lucky.  Somehow rolled on top of him
> and was a depression in the ground that saved him.
>
> Ford 8n s look safe, are low to ground and wide frt.   I have helped
> upright 3 of those tractors.  They roll easily.
>
> I moved and stacked 1000's of 1800 lb. 6 by 6 NH855 bales.  Tractor was an
> MM 950 lp with loader and bale carrier on front and balanced with another
> 3pt NH bale carrier on the rear.  Tractor was heavy and balanced.
>
> It is the operator more than the tractor.  If the Center of gravity is
> high you will have an issue.  Safety first.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> on behalf of
> bradloomis at charter.net <bradloomis at charter.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 1, 2019 6:05 PM
> *To:* 'Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group' <
> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Tractor safety
>
>
> First rule of forklift safety. Buckle up and if it goes over hang on, lean
> away from impact and ride it out. Don’t jump. I’ve never understood why I
> see people in fields with the loader sky high. I’d look over rather than
> under any day. COG goes weird with shifting weight. Dean’s experience shows
> that.
>
>
>
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Cecil
> Bearden
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 01, 2019 2:43 PM
> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Tractor safety
>
>
>
> Dean:
> I would second the admonition to be very careful with a loader.  I see so
> many tractors with loaders mowing fields here, and the loader is raised
> nearly to the top!!!!!!!!   What the H**L is the operator thinking?!?!?!?
> I worked for and with an older fellow cutting hay on 150 acres.  When I
> would get on the tractor to cut, bale, or rake, and he was driving, the
> first thing I did was lower the loader.  It usually had a bale spike on
> it.  He once asked me why I always lowered the bucket.  I told him it was
> because I did not want to tear up the cab.  This was when the disc mower
> was attached and he had been running about 9mph over the field, and we were
> having problems with gophers.  I have had some unsettling experiences with
> my tractors as they all have loaders, but that bucket or spike is kept as
> close to the ground as possible.   The scariest experience is opening a new
> field and finding the new holes from coyotes digging for rats and other
> burrowing animals.  I have had one field ruined by coyotes.  It has some
> sloping areas and it seemed each time I baled it I found a new hole on the
> downhill side.  A big local farmer leased it out from under me and now it
> is his problem.  Every sticker I have seen on a loader says Carry Load
> Low.
>
> I must also tell you all about the sticker that comes on the Belarus
> tractors from the factory.   *"In case of tractor overturn, do not jump,
> hold tight to steering wheel".*
>
> Cecil
>
>
>
> On 9/1/2019 4:08 PM, deanvp at att.net wrote:
>
> I have posted on this list, in the past, real and actual engineering
> testing results on the stability of Narrow vs WFE tractors.  There is a
> statement made in the Face “discussion” that is misleading at best and
> probably incorrect at the worst as follows:
>
>
>
> “Tricycle type tractors are significantly more prone to rollovers than
> wide front tractors, and should therefore not be used with front-end
> loaders. On this farm there was a wide front tractor of the same brand and
> model and approximately same year and condition. This tractor would have
> been a safer choice to be used with the front-end loader. Using the wide
> front tractor would likely have prevented this accident.”
>
>
>
> The engineering tests do not necessarily agree with “significantly more
> prone” and a “wide front end would have likely prevented this accident”
> Yes, there is a slight and please note “slight” improvement in stability
> with a WFE tractor in this kind of situation but not “significant”
> especially not nearly as “significant” as we are lead to believe.  The
> statements in the discussion do not reference any testing results or
> engineering studies and therefore need to be taken as a grain of salt. The
> most dangerous part of this is leading WFE tractor owners to feel like they
> are significantly less prone to roll-overs.  There are many contributing
> factors which contribute to roll overs and one of the worst is turning up
> into the hill while moving which creates a rotational force over and above
> just the slope of the hill. The fully loaded loader bucket was described as
> being up at about 66% which adds significantly to the higher momentary
> center of gravity. The article that I published showed that once the
> tractor started to roll the WFE would rotate with the rear wheels and hit
> the normal stops of the WFE rotation and possibly increase the chance of
> roll over due to the sudden hit. I would guess that the overwhelming causes
> of the roll over were due to the loader bucket being at 66% and the speed
> at which the turn into the hill occurred. Both major contributions. Of
> course the slope of the hill is important as well and whether or not any of
> the wheels of the tractor hit any kind of obstruction. But…  I just always
> get my back up when I hear WFE tractors are safer than NFE tractors. Not
> nearly as much as we are led to believe.
>
>
>
> An anecdotal reference: I’ve lived at my current residence for 21 years in
> retirement. I currently own 11 antique tractors more NFE than WFE, more
> that I have bought and sold, all NFE, and one newer compact tractor a 1981
> model.  There are parts of my 6 acres that have a decent slope sometimes
> exceeding 6%.   Each of these tractors has been out and about on the
> property even in the sloped areas at times.  But…… only once have I rolled
> a tractor and that occurred just a couple years ago.  No it was not any of
> my antique tractors with NFE or WFE it was my newest tractor my 1981 JD 750
> Compact with a WFE.  Yes, and of course it had a loader.  I was moving dirt
> no more than 300 feet from one area at the entrance to a low area where I
> had removed an old growth cedar stump. I was driving on a slight slope,
> parallel to the slope with the loaded bucket no more than a foot off the
> ground in low gear which is a really slow gear. I was being really careful
> primarily because of the slope which really wasn’t all that steep but I was
> being cautious. But…  the right front wheel dropped into a hidden hole
> maybe 6” or more deep and that caused the loader bucket to shift to the
> right and damned if the whole tractor started a very slow roll. So slow
> that I had time to decide whether I was going to stay on the tractor or
> jump. I decided to ride it out. Yes it rolled on to it’s right side and
> stopped abruptly. Why,  because of the Roll Over Protection Structure
> mounted right behind the seat stopped it from rolling over more.  I am
> alive today because of ROPS.  I got beat up a little and had trouble
> getting out of bed the next morning but…  I am still here.  Just for
> talking points, a NFE would have missed this hidden hole. But that isn’t
> really important to this discussion.
>
>
>
> So if the “Face” article had just limited itself to stating that ROPS
> would have probably prevented this death I wouldn’t be commenting here. I
> believe I am right in that JD invented the ROPS concept and immediately
> released their rights to the invention to any and all manufacturers who
> wanted to use it.  I haven’t looked to see if ROPS is now legally required
> on specific sized newly manufactured tractors. If not, it should be.
>
>
>
> Whatever be the case be very careful when using a loader on an antique
> tractor be they NFE or WFE. They are both dangerous especially on slopes.
> Be safe out there.
>
>
>
> PS: My only intent here is to warn WFE Tractor owners away from being
> overly confident that they are any safer.
>
>
>
>
>
> ROPS reference source:
> https://blog.machinefinder.com/27325/john-deere-rops-key-dates-and-its-role-in-operator-safety
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dean VP
>
> Snohomish, WA 98290
>
>
>
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Indiana Robinson
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 1, 2019 10:47 AM
> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Tractor safety
>
>
>
> No. New chemical weed control put most cultivators in the scrap...
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 1, 2019, 10:50 AM James Peck <jamesgpeck at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Were narrow front tractors discontinued due to legislation or lawsuits?
>
>
>
> *[ *Indiana Robinson] <snip> I was looking for something else when Google
> showed me this report from about 1995. The age of the report doesn't
> matter, it's timeless.
>
> https://face.public-health.uiowa.edu/Reports/REPORT-003.html <snip>
>
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-- 
-- 

Francis Robinson
aka "farmer"
Central Indiana USA
robinson46176 at gmail.com
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