[AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day

Ken Knierim ken.knierim at gmail.com
Wed Nov 13 13:33:04 PST 2019


As Steve pointed out, AC built some big and varied industrial stuff. At the
Titan Missile Museum down by Tucson you can tour a missile silo and at the
entrance to the crew area they have a blast door (think overgrown door to a
safe or vault) that (if memory serves) is near 10 tons. It was made by
Allis Chalmers as well.

Ken in AZ

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 2:27 PM Steve Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:

> Off topic but Cecil just reminded me of a tour of Hoover Dam I did 20 yrs
> ago (before 9/11 they would bring you into the very bowels).  At least one
> of the big generators was built by Allis-Chalmers.   (Others wore GE or
> Westinghouse plaques).  These generators, working from fuzzy memory, are
> about 30’ diameter; driven by 2’ diameter shafts coming up from the
> turbines.  Very impressive in the modern day, and hard to even imagine the
> manufacturing equipment required  back then.
> SO
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 13, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like the Deutz-Allis screwup.   Allis Chalmers was into a lot
> more than farm equipment, and built very reliable products. Deutz ruined
> it...
> > Cecil
> >
> >> On 11/13/2019 6:51 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
> >> I should add: Long timers on the list will recall that Homer Donagher
> of Linton, Indiana was VP of Foreign Sales for Oliver at the time of the
> White acquisition. Homer was of the opinion that Oliver should have been
> buying White, instead of the other way around.
> >>
> >> He was forced into retirement at age 60 and the had a 12+ year career
> as a teacher (which is how I knew him) and school principal.
> >>
> >> I think he holds the record for 'number of times retired' as he more or
> less formally retired at least 4 times that I know of.
> >>
> >> Mark J
> >>
> >>> On 11/13/2019 6:40 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
> >>> White Motor bought out Oliver sometime in the early 1960s.
> >>>
> >>> Mark J
> >>>
> >>> On 11/12/2019 12:10 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>>> Did White Motor Corp own both Oliver and Moline from the start, or
> did White take them over later. IMHO, Moline, while a dependable tractor,
> was the most difficult tractor to ever work on.  Extra bolts, special
> bolts, such as Torx headed bolts recessed in from the back side of a
> flange, just very awkward to work on and work with. I had a 5 star and a
> G1000, and grew up with an R, Z, and a U series.  Big awkward heavy
> tractors as opposed to Oliver that were big, heavy, but fairly easy to
> operate, and easy to work on.   Dad & I installed a clutch in the 1950 in a
> day without splitting the tractor.  We didn't even move the radiator.
> Pulled the engine and then set it crossways over the big cast iron belly
> frame and pulled the 2 speed off the engine and changed the clutch.  I hope
> to get the 1850 running again.   It was a good baler tractor before we got
> a cab tractor.
> >>>> Cecil
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/12/2019 11:40 AM, deanvp at att.net wrote:
> >>>>> James,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I really don't know. I haven't researched that. But there is a
> possibility that it might have diverted financial resources that could have
> been better used in the Agricultural market.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dean VP
> >>>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of James
> Peck
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:15 AM
> >>>>> To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <
> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >>>>> Subject: [AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Did the acquisition of Cletrac help or hurt?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dean VP AT List Member <deanvp at att.net>; IMHO, Oliver could have
> owned the tractor market given they had to financial resources to make the
> marketing push. In my home county there was only one Oliver dealer whereas
> John Deere and I/H had a dealer in every town over 2,000 population. The
> Oliver's in the field were clustered around that one dealer. Dealer support
> was probably more important to the farmers than the actual tractor.  Oliver
> was a leader in many innovations that JD and I/H followed with more
> marketing muscle. I know there was a kind of under the table relationship
> between JD and Oliver since Waterloo and Charles City were not that far
> apart geographically. I suspect there was quite a bit of industrial
> espionage that occurred in the local bars, homes and churches. But…. Oliver
> was a technology leader. I don’t know how much the fact that the engines
> were not Oliver designed would have limited them.  But they just didn’t
> have the financial resources to compete after JD announced the New
> Generation tractors.  How that development was kept secret in the for
> several years is somewhat of a feat all by itself. The decision to develop
> the NG tractors was made in 1953. An expected 5 year development program.
> But it wasn’t quite ready in 1958 so there was a two year delay in the
> announcement of the NG tractors.  Had there not been the delay the 30
> series two cylinder JD tractors would never have existed. Strangely JD
> became the largest producer of Agricultural tractors in the US in 1958
> overcoming I/H largely due to the x60 series tractor fiasco.  I/h owned the
> tractor market and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  I/H
> management’s bad decisions overwhelmed a good product line. In the time
> period between 1950 and 1955 I/H owned on average roughly 31% of the
> tractor market. JD’s market share during that same period averaged only
> 14%.   It just proves that poor management can always overcome good
> products. . Here is a chart of the overall tractor market. The market fell
> apart after 1951. The void after WWII had been filled.
> >>>>>
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