[AT] 430V

Sun Sep 3 15:53:33 PDT 2017

Spencer
Joey Barnes, King of Obsolete,  gets stuck engines turning with the bar starter. An old starter armature with a socket welded on to receive a 6-8' pipe handle. These engines broke thru ice and sat in a watery grave for years.
Is there any way you can get some torque on the flywheel ring gear?
Come to think of it there is a guy on YT who frees stuck engines simply by bumping with the starter after an ATF soak.
Tom
--
Sent from myMail app for Android Sunday, 03 September 2017, 03:20PM -0700 from Spencer Yost < yostsw at atis.net >:
>Good call out  Steve, I had not considered that. The stuck piston is very near to TDC.  Just a quarter inch to half-inch to go.  As Dean said, its beginning to feel like I'm SOL
>
>Number two cylinder valves are closed. My guess is the engine stopped on the number 2 compression stroke. So it barely turned over bottom dead center. #1 exhaust valve is open.  Which means the number one cylinder is probably just beginning to leave the exhaust stroke.
>
>To Charlie: one of the reasons I'm trying my best to unstick it without a lot of teardown is because of the backstory of this tractor. It was running as recently as a year or two ago and lost it's covered storage even more recently. It can't possibly have rusted too bad in that length of time; one would think.  It's backstory is enough of a reason to try less invasive means.  Also the borescope reveals cylinder walls that are not in that bad shape. Again this is only having a quarter to a half inch to look at though .  There were a lot of rust flakes from the exhaust manifold in there and I flushed and vacuumed them out. And the combustion chamber has some rusting. But the cylinder walls are surprisingly good - just some black markings and some very light rusting.  Once the piston moves I may find something different.
>
>Thanks for all the continuing advice.
>
>Spencer SOL Yost
>
>> On I Sep 3, 2017, at 4:08 PM, Stephen Offiler < soffiler at gmail.com > wrote:
>>
>> I'll second what Charlie said, and add another factor:
>>
>> You've been in there with a bore scope, right?  Is the stuck piston near
>> TDC or BDC?  If so, the geometry isn't giving you much mechanical advantage
>> against the piston.
>>
>> SO
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 12:26 PM, charlie hill < charliehill at embarqmail.com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Spencer, have you tried loading pressure against it in the other
>>> (opposite) rotation?
>>>
>>> I am still of the personal opinion, if it was mine and stuck that tight,
>>> I'd want to see what's going on inside it.  Even if you get it to break
>>> loose aren't you going to be worried about the damage that might
>>> be done if you start and run it without knowing exactly where and why
>>> it is stuck?
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Spencer Yost
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 9:37 AM
>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] 430V
>>>
>>> Thanks Tom. The tractor is a very low hour tractor, and I am very amazed at
>>> how little play there is to develop any real acceleration with the roll
>>> back-and-forth method. I have tried chocking one wheel, raising the other
>>> and shock loading that way. With the set up I just put together yesterday I
>>> can  vertically rock , from the operator's platform, the tractor  and get
>>> some real good up and down shock loading(engine hoist arm flexes a bit).
>>>
>>> PS.  The hoist did not leak down over night.
>>>
>>> Spencer Yost
>>>
>>>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 12:35 AM,  toma at risingnet.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think a little shock action (clunk clunk back and forth)  in 5th gear
>>>> may produce better results than constant weight.
>>>> Tom
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from myMail app for Android Saturday, 02 September 2017,
>>>> 08:58PM -0700 from Spencer Yost <  yostsw at atis.net > :
>>>>
>>>>> I just checked on the tractor and Nada.  The hoist cylinder is holding,
>>>>> and now that I think about it, I think I did replace the cylinder about
>>>>> eight or 10 years ago. I think the fear I have about the cylinder not
>>>>> holding relates to the old one that I used to have that I have since
>>>>> replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had not thought about the 4x4 straps, but I had thought about moving
>>>>> the hoist back some. I have limited space to work with, so I ruled that
>>>>> out.  As for weights I may add some tomorrow. I have some weights from
>>>>> the  John Deere B I used to own, and some weights  for my Pacer that are
>>>>> not installed currently.   As for gearing I am using fifth gear. I did
>>>>> only earn a B in or physics so I may be wrong about this; but I believe
>>>>> 5th gear(this tractor does have the 5 speed option) on the wheel is the
>>>>> same thing as first gear in normal engine powered circumstances and
>>> would
>>>>> generate the most torque.  I would love some discussion on this. I don't
>>>>> have a lot of confidence in my understanding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spencer Yost
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Spencer Yost
>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Dean VP <  deanvp at att.net > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What would increase the torque would be strapping a 4x4 to each wheel
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> then using the hoist 6 feet or so feet back away from the wheels.
>>>>>> Adding
>>>>>> weight to the tractor over the axle will also help.  I'd have to think
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> it  a bit which gear would transmit the most torque to the engine.
>>>>>> Inserting the right length board under the hoist would eliminate any
>>>>>> leak
>>>>>> down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:  at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Spencer
>>> Yost
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 2, 2017 6:02 PM
>>>>>> To:  at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>> Subject: [AT] 430V
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The shop reorganization happened today, so I had the opportunity to try
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> apply constant pressure to the engine by raising the rear wheels. An
>>>>>> engine
>>>>>> hoist and a fence stretcher used as a spreader bar seems to fit the
>>>>>> bill.
>>>>>> The cut-outs in the wheels that the chain loop through are at 90
>>> degrees
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> vertical so I should be generating as much force as possible.  Engine
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> has not moved but I just started.  The engine hoist cylinder is not
>>>>>> leaking
>>>>>> down like I seem to remember it would, so I will leave it overnight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS: To show you were an optimist I am, I drained the penetrating fluid
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the cylinder so it wouldn't spray all over the shop when the engine
>>>>>> let's
>>>>>> go. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PSS.  I remember enough of college physics to know that lifting it
>>> more
>>>>>> than just barely off the ground actually decreases force So I'll keep a
>>>>>> close eye on the engine hoist to make sure it's not leaking down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stayed tuned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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