[AT] OT modern computer controlls

Fri Mar 24 17:03:48 PDT 2017

I have a local auto mechanic the is really good. Beyond that I agree 
totally.

Right now he is sidelined with a knee replacement - his son is running 
the business and is also quite good.

It really helps to have someone you trust for this. I don;t have the 
same realtionship with a tractor mechanic.

David

NW NC

On 3/24/2017 4:12 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> David,  I find myself doing more and more repairs because I
> can no longer trust the techs to diagnose a problem instead of
> just throwing expensive components around.  YouTube is a great
> help.  If it's a common problem on a popular model you can bet
> someone has posted a how to video on YouTube that covers it.
> You just have to watch several and go with the consensus because
> there is no watchman on YouTube to make sure bogus information isn't
> posted.
>
> I just refuse to pay a "technician" $70 to $100 an hour to guess and install
> parts starting with the most expensive and working backwards.
>
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Bruce
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 2:27 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls
>
> I think that is a fair statement - just like I no longer even attempt to
> repair my vehicles. My concern is whether or not independent shops (with
> qualified technicians) can have access as needed. That is a gray area in
> the law other than for on the road vehicles.
>
> David
>
> NW NC
>
>
> On 3/23/2017 2:03 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>> My point, Dean, is not really pro-EPA nor con-EPA.  My point is that
>> computerization might have been started by emission controls, but that's
>> history already.  MANY aspects of modern automobiles (and modern farm
>> equipment for that matter) that have nothing at all to do with emissions
>> (antilock brakes, traction control, security systems, entertainment
>> systems, climate control systems, automatic transmissions, etc) are now
>> computerized.  Therefore, repairs that relate to any of these systems now
>> tends to require a level of equipment and technical understanding that
>> surpasses most shade-tree do-it-yourselfers.
>>
>> SO
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen,
>>>
>>> The EPA has done some good things to help clean up the air but IMHO have
>>> gone way overboard in over regulating causing excessive cost increases
>>> for
>>> manufactures.  There has to be some kind of reasonable balance.   We are
>>> not
>>> at that point right now.
>>>
>>> Dean VP
>>> Apache junction, AZ
>>>
>>> It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Stephen
>>> Offiler
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 7:20 AM
>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls
>>>
>>> I don't intended to sound like I'm disagreeing with Thomas.  I think his
>>> EPA
>>> comment does in fact apply to the basic history of modern engine
>>> complexity.
>>> But as usual the story is a lot more complex than that.  I lifted the
>>> following from Wikipedia because I agree and so it saves me a bunch of
>>> time
>>> trying to summarize what I know about Right To Repair legislation and
>>> controversy (I work in the automotive aftermarket, and occasionally some
>>> of
>>> this stuff touches me professionally)
>>>
>>> "...The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments required all vehicles built after
>>> 1994 to include on-board computer systems to monitor vehicle emissions.
>>> The
>>> bill also required automakers to provide independent repairers the same
>>> emissions service information as provided to franchised new car dealers.
>>> California further passed legislation requiring that all emissions
>>> related
>>> service information and tools be made available to independent shops.
>>> Unlike the Clean Air Act, the California bill also required the car
>>> companies to maintain web sites which contained all of their service
>>> information and which was accessible on a subscription basis to repair
>>> shops
>>> and car owners.
>>>
>>> As automotive technology advanced, computers came to control the vital
>>> systems of every vehicle, including brakes, ignition keys, air bags,
>>> steering mechanisms and more.[3] Repairing motor vehicles became a
>>> high-tech
>>> operation, with computer diagnostic tools replacing a mechanic's
>>> observation
>>> and experience.[4] These developments eventually made manufacturers the
>>> "gatekeepers" of advanced information necessary to repair or supply parts
>>> to
>>> motor vehicles..."
>>>
>>> Link:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners'_Right_to_Repair_Act
>>>
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Thomas O Mehrkam
>>> <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am aware most to the complexity you find in modern engines is the
>>>> result of EPA regulations. I was not aware the EPA would go after the
>>>> manufacture for modifications made by a third party.  That is insane.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/2017 9:19 PM, Henry Miller wrote:
>>>>> I'm an employee of John deere, but I don't speak for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> This article is misrepresenting the situation. People claim they
>>>>> just want to fix things, but when you really press then in it they
>>>>> will admit what they really want is to disable all the emissions
>>>>> controls and/or get more power. Of course John deere isn't going to
>>>>> agree to that, nor will any competitor. The way the law is written
>>>>> the EPA will be after deere for anyone who modifies their tractor
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to work on your tractor, all the codes are in a book
>>>>> that you can order.  Any heavy duty scan tool which your autoparts
>>>>> store will sell you will read the codes. That is enough to do most
>>>>> repairs.  It isn't enough to replace an ecu, but since that only
>>>>> comes from deere, the dealer should provide the programming.
>>>>>
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