[AT] OT modern computer controlls

[charlie hill]

Steve I've found that it's not the complexity of making the repairs
but the lack of availability of information about how the systems work.
Unless there is damage to a wiring harness the repairs almost ALL come
down to removing and replacing a component.  Anyone who can change a
light bulb can do that.  You just have to be able to read the computer, find
the sensor or component and change it out. The obvious exception being when
there is a mechanical failure (worn mechanical part such as a valve, etc. or 
a leak
in a vacuum system).  Then it gets back to old fashioned mechanic skills and 
most of
the new techs have no mechanic skills.

I do agree with you about the interconnectivity of the systems.  In a lot of 
cars if the
radio quits or gets stolen the car won't even run because it's all tied into 
the engine
computer.  That's going to be bad news for a guy with a 20 year old clunker.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen Offiler
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 2:03 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls

My point, Dean, is not really pro-EPA nor con-EPA.  My point is that
computerization might have been started by emission controls, but that's
history already.  MANY aspects of modern automobiles (and modern farm
equipment for that matter) that have nothing at all to do with emissions
(antilock brakes, traction control, security systems, entertainment
systems, climate control systems, automatic transmissions, etc) are now
computerized.  Therefore, repairs that relate to any of these systems now
tends to require a level of equipment and technical understanding that
surpasses most shade-tree do-it-yourselfers.

SO


On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:

> Stephen,
>
> The EPA has done some good things to help clean up the air but IMHO have
> gone way overboard in over regulating causing excessive cost increases for
> manufactures.  There has to be some kind of reasonable balance.   We are
> not
> at that point right now.
>
> Dean VP
> Apache junction, AZ
>
> It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Offiler
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 7:20 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls
>
> I don't intended to sound like I'm disagreeing with Thomas.  I think his
> EPA
> comment does in fact apply to the basic history of modern engine
> complexity.
> But as usual the story is a lot more complex than that.  I lifted the
> following from Wikipedia because I agree and so it saves me a bunch of 
> time
> trying to summarize what I know about Right To Repair legislation and
> controversy (I work in the automotive aftermarket, and occasionally some 
> of
> this stuff touches me professionally)
>
> "...The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments required all vehicles built after
> 1994 to include on-board computer systems to monitor vehicle emissions. 
> The
> bill also required automakers to provide independent repairers the same
> emissions service information as provided to franchised new car dealers.
> California further passed legislation requiring that all emissions related
> service information and tools be made available to independent shops.
> Unlike the Clean Air Act, the California bill also required the car
> companies to maintain web sites which contained all of their service
> information and which was accessible on a subscription basis to repair
> shops
> and car owners.
>
> As automotive technology advanced, computers came to control the vital
> systems of every vehicle, including brakes, ignition keys, air bags,
> steering mechanisms and more.[3] Repairing motor vehicles became a
> high-tech
> operation, with computer diagnostic tools replacing a mechanic's
> observation
> and experience.[4] These developments eventually made manufacturers the
> "gatekeepers" of advanced information necessary to repair or supply parts
> to
> motor vehicles..."
>
> Link:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners'_Right_to_Repair_Act
>
>
> SO
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Thomas O Mehrkam <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I am aware most to the complexity you find in modern engines is the
> > result of EPA regulations. I was not aware the EPA would go after the
> > manufacture for modifications made by a third party.  That is insane.
> >
> > On 3/22/2017 9:19 PM, Henry Miller wrote:
> > > I'm an employee of John deere, but I don't speak for them.
> > >
> > > This article is misrepresenting the situation. People claim they
> > > just want to fix things, but when you really press then in it they
> > > will admit what they really want is to disable all the emissions
> > > controls and/or get more power. Of course John deere isn't going to
> > > agree to that, nor will any competitor. The way the law is written
> > > the EPA will be after deere for anyone who modifies their tractor
> > >
> > > If you want to work on your tractor, all the codes are in a book
> > > that you can order.  Any heavy duty scan tool which your autoparts
> > > store will sell you will read the codes. That is enough to do most
> > > repairs.  It isn't enough to replace an ecu, but since that only
> > > comes from deere, the dealer should provide the programming.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
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