[AT] OT modern computer controlls

Fri Mar 24 10:07:39 PDT 2017

Even with the volume compensation feature, I tend to adjust the radio 
anyway....

Had not thought about the anti theft angle, but I guess I am still in 
the category of why steal a stock car radio... (yes, showing my age.. 
:o), tho in all fairness, the newer stock radios are much nicer than 
then they were 30 years ago.

The car in question I mentioned was a 2001 VW TDi with the 1.9 liter 
diesel engine.

I had the vag-com software to "talk" with the car, pretty much a 
necessary if you want to do any major service to the car (and even much 
more so with the 2012 TDi I used to own).

Still wished I had that car, but I had to retire it at 349k miles (still 
on the original clutch!), when I was "sandwiched" on I66 on the way home 
one evening, which totaled the car (the 4 door Nisan truck following me 
did not quite stop in time).

The only real issue I ever had with that car was the intake manifold 
carboning up  to the point you could barely get a pencil though it (when 
clean, its about 2 inches in diameter).  Ran MUCH better when I cleaned 
it out, and then tweaked the settings so it would not happen again.

I do wonder how many of todays cars will still be running in 50 years.....

Howard

On 03/24/2017 10:50 AM, Thomas Mehrkam wrote:
> I am perfectly capable of modulating the volume knob when the speed changes.
> I do not need a &%$# computer to do it for me.
> If course I grew up with vibrator power supplies in a tube radio.  You just banged on the dash to fix the darn thing. :-}
>
>
>        From: Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>   To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>   Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:47 AM
>   Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls
>     
> Easy answer is anti-theft.  YOU might live in a rural place where theft
> just isn't even a thing, but, cars are built for the majority of the
> population, which in more suburban and urban areas, suffers a certain
> amount of petty theft of things like car stereos.  A radio that
> authenticates itself with the rest of the car's computers, and goes dead if
> it's removed and reinstalled in the wrong car, is a radio nobody wants to
> steal, problem solved.  In addition, a radio that talks to other parts of
> the car knows, for example, how fast you're driving and can automatically
> adjust volume to compensate for road noise.  Then we get into Bluetooth
> communication of the radio with your cell phone for hands-free calling,
> which is law in many states.  The radio has to communicate with a
> microphone located somewhere up near your head, not down on the dash where
> the rest of the radio is located.
>
> I get it ... it sounds like completely needless complexity to some people.
> It solves problems for other people.
>
> SO
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:26 AM, Howard Fleming <hfleming at moosebird.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Nothing really new to add to this, but the story is showing up on some
>> of the security sites I check:
>> https://securityledger.com/2017/03/hobbled-by-dmca-
>> famers-are-jailbreaking-tractors/
>> https://securityledger.com/2017/03/right-to-repair-on-
>> the-ropes-in-minnesota-motherboard/
>>
>> and others:
>> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150513/18001030993/
>> john-deere-clarifies-trying-to-abuse-copyright-law-to-
>> stop-you-owning-your-own-tractor-because-it-cares-about-you.shtml
>>
>> On the subject of computerization, I have owned VWs for years (diesel up
>> to recently... :o(, and and while computer controls for engines, etc.,
>> have their good points, "why" does my radio have to talk to the system?
>> Makes is a real pain to add a cd changer to a stock VW radio.... (in the
>> past).
>>
>> For a tractor reference, my 48 Ford 8N has no need for it.... :o).
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/23/2017 02:03 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>> My point, Dean, is not really pro-EPA nor con-EPA.  My point is that
>>> computerization might have been started by emission controls, but that's
>>> history already.  MANY aspects of modern automobiles (and modern farm
>>> equipment for that matter) that have nothing at all to do with emissions
>>> (antilock brakes, traction control, security systems, entertainment
>>> systems, climate control systems, automatic transmissions, etc) are now
>>> computerized.  Therefore, repairs that relate to any of these systems now
>>> tends to require a level of equipment and technical understanding that
>>> surpasses most shade-tree do-it-yourselfers.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen,
>>>>
>>>> The EPA has done some good things to help clean up the air but IMHO have
>>>> gone way overboard in over regulating causing excessive cost increases
>> for
>>>> manufactures.  There has to be some kind of reasonable balance.  We are
>>>> not
>>>> at that point right now.
>>>>
>>>> Dean VP
>>>> Apache junction, AZ
>>>>
>>>> It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Stephen
>> Offiler
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 7:20 AM
>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls
>>>>
>>>> I don't intended to sound like I'm disagreeing with Thomas.  I think his
>>>> EPA
>>>> comment does in fact apply to the basic history of modern engine
>>>> complexity.
>>>> But as usual the story is a lot more complex than that.  I lifted the
>>>> following from Wikipedia because I agree and so it saves me a bunch of
>> time
>>>> trying to summarize what I know about Right To Repair legislation and
>>>> controversy (I work in the automotive aftermarket, and occasionally
>> some of
>>>> this stuff touches me professionally)
>>>>
>>>> "...The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments required all vehicles built after
>>>> 1994 to include on-board computer systems to monitor vehicle emissions.
>> The
>>>> bill also required automakers to provide independent repairers the same
>>>> emissions service information as provided to franchised new car dealers.
>>>> California further passed legislation requiring that all emissions
>> related
>>>> service information and tools be made available to independent shops.
>>>> Unlike the Clean Air Act, the California bill also required the car
>>>> companies to maintain web sites which contained all of their service
>>>> information and which was accessible on a subscription basis to repair
>>>> shops
>>>> and car owners.
>>>>
>>>> As automotive technology advanced, computers came to control the vital
>>>> systems of every vehicle, including brakes, ignition keys, air bags,
>>>> steering mechanisms and more.[3] Repairing motor vehicles became a
>>>> high-tech
>>>> operation, with computer diagnostic tools replacing a mechanic's
>>>> observation
>>>> and experience.[4] These developments eventually made manufacturers the
>>>> "gatekeepers" of advanced information necessary to repair or supply
>> parts
>>>> to
>>>> motor vehicles..."
>>>>
>>>> Link:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners'_Right_to_Repair_Act
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Thomas O Mehrkam <
>> tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am aware most to the complexity you find in modern engines is the
>>>>> result of EPA regulations. I was not aware the EPA would go after the
>>>>> manufacture for modifications made by a third party.  That is insane.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/2017 9:19 PM, Henry Miller wrote:
>>>>>> I'm an employee of John deere, but I don't speak for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This article is misrepresenting the situation. People claim they
>>>>>> just want to fix things, but when you really press then in it they
>>>>>> will admit what they really want is to disable all the emissions
>>>>>> controls and/or get more power. Of course John deere isn't going to
>>>>>> agree to that, nor will any competitor. The way the law is written
>>>>>> the EPA will be after deere for anyone who modifies their tractor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to work on your tractor, all the codes are in a book
>>>>>> that you can order.  Any heavy duty scan tool which your autoparts
>>>>>> store will sell you will read the codes. That is enough to do most
>>>>>> repairs.  It isn't enough to replace an ecu, but since that only
>>>>>> comes from deere, the dealer should provide the programming.
>>>>>>
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