[AT] OT modern computer controlls

Cecil Bearden crbearden at copper.net
Fri Mar 24 05:01:11 PDT 2017


My wife drives a 2003 Dodge caravan.  She loves mini vans, and we have 
another 99 for a backup.  I changed the transmission fluid on the 2003 
when we got it ( used of course) and the check engine light came on.  I 
had to take it to the dealer to get the check engine light turned off 
because it was sending a low transmission fluid warning to the 
computer.  $300 later the dealer reset the computer.   Next time, I am 
going to try disconnecting the battery cable when I change the 
transmission fluid.

My New Holland TS110 has a computer that controls the filling of the 
clutch packs when the shuttle shift and the clutch is used. There is a 
cable with a switch required to adjust the clutch packs on this model.  
If it was a year earlier, it would do it by itself with a procedure of 
starting with both shift  buttons down etc. If I haul it to the dealer 
it is about $300 by the time they get done with their other charges.  It 
they make a service call, it is another $275...   This tractor is a 2003 
model and has been nothing but a money pit ( over $12000 repairs in 6 
years ).  On the other hand, my 2006 Belarus only needed a new 6 blade 
fan for $65 during the same time of ownership.

I have been building fence again this week.  I had some Mexican friends 
who came to help.  In 4 days we completely rebuilt 1/2 mile of new fence 
new posts and corners, and replaced the wire on 1/4 mile leaving the 
existing posts.  We replaced 5 barb wires with 2 barb wires behind the 
40 inch "Field Fence"(hog wire) and one wire just above the hog wire.   
I used the TS110 to pull and push back in the posts since it had the 
shuttle shift and A/C ( it was 90deg).  However, with the "load 
sensing"computer hydraulics, when pushing posts in the ground if a hard 
place was encountered, the loader would stop and when you pushed the 
lever a little more, the pressure would build up and the loader would 
jerk down.  I had to really stay on top of it to keep from pushing to 
deep.  On the other hand, the Belarus with the open center hydraulics 
would just push down steadily.  The Belarus has a dry clutch, and 
pushing posts requires a lot of slipping the clutch and shifting, a lot 
of wear on the tractor and my old knees.

Cecil in OKla


On 3/24/2017 6:14 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> Easy answer is anti-theft.  YOU might live in a rural place where theft
> just isn't even a thing, but, cars are built for the majority of the
> population, which in more suburban and urban areas, suffers a certain
> amount of petty theft of things like car stereos.  A radio that
> authenticates itself with the rest of the car's computers, and goes dead if
> it's removed and reinstalled in the wrong car, is a radio nobody wants to
> steal, problem solved.  In addition, a radio that talks to other parts of
> the car knows, for example, how fast you're driving and can automatically
> adjust volume to compensate for road noise.  Then we get into Bluetooth
> communication of the radio with your cell phone for hands-free calling,
> which is law in many states.  The radio has to communicate with a
> microphone located somewhere up near your head, not down on the dash where
> the rest of the radio is located.
>
> I get it ... it sounds like completely needless complexity to some people.
> It solves problems for other people.
>
> SO
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:26 AM, Howard Fleming <hfleming at moosebird.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Nothing really new to add to this, but the story is showing up on some
>> of the security sites I check:
>> https://securityledger.com/2017/03/hobbled-by-dmca-
>> famers-are-jailbreaking-tractors/
>> https://securityledger.com/2017/03/right-to-repair-on-
>> the-ropes-in-minnesota-motherboard/
>>
>> and others:
>> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150513/18001030993/
>> john-deere-clarifies-trying-to-abuse-copyright-law-to-
>> stop-you-owning-your-own-tractor-because-it-cares-about-you.shtml
>>
>> On the subject of computerization, I have owned VWs for years (diesel up
>> to recently... :o(, and and while computer controls for engines, etc.,
>> have their good points, "why" does my radio have to talk to the system?
>> Makes is a real pain to add a cd changer to a stock VW radio.... (in the
>> past).
>>
>> For a tractor reference, my 48 Ford 8N has no need for it.... :o).
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/23/2017 02:03 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>> My point, Dean, is not really pro-EPA nor con-EPA.  My point is that
>>> computerization might have been started by emission controls, but that's
>>> history already.  MANY aspects of modern automobiles (and modern farm
>>> equipment for that matter) that have nothing at all to do with emissions
>>> (antilock brakes, traction control, security systems, entertainment
>>> systems, climate control systems, automatic transmissions, etc) are now
>>> computerized.  Therefore, repairs that relate to any of these systems now
>>> tends to require a level of equipment and technical understanding that
>>> surpasses most shade-tree do-it-yourselfers.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen,
>>>>
>>>> The EPA has done some good things to help clean up the air but IMHO have
>>>> gone way overboard in over regulating causing excessive cost increases
>> for
>>>> manufactures.  There has to be some kind of reasonable balance.   We are
>>>> not
>>>> at that point right now.
>>>>
>>>> Dean VP
>>>> Apache junction, AZ
>>>>
>>>> It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Stephen
>> Offiler
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 7:20 AM
>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls
>>>>
>>>> I don't intended to sound like I'm disagreeing with Thomas.  I think his
>>>> EPA
>>>> comment does in fact apply to the basic history of modern engine
>>>> complexity.
>>>> But as usual the story is a lot more complex than that.  I lifted the
>>>> following from Wikipedia because I agree and so it saves me a bunch of
>> time
>>>> trying to summarize what I know about Right To Repair legislation and
>>>> controversy (I work in the automotive aftermarket, and occasionally
>> some of
>>>> this stuff touches me professionally)
>>>>
>>>> "...The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments required all vehicles built after
>>>> 1994 to include on-board computer systems to monitor vehicle emissions.
>> The
>>>> bill also required automakers to provide independent repairers the same
>>>> emissions service information as provided to franchised new car dealers.
>>>> California further passed legislation requiring that all emissions
>> related
>>>> service information and tools be made available to independent shops.
>>>> Unlike the Clean Air Act, the California bill also required the car
>>>> companies to maintain web sites which contained all of their service
>>>> information and which was accessible on a subscription basis to repair
>>>> shops
>>>> and car owners.
>>>>
>>>> As automotive technology advanced, computers came to control the vital
>>>> systems of every vehicle, including brakes, ignition keys, air bags,
>>>> steering mechanisms and more.[3] Repairing motor vehicles became a
>>>> high-tech
>>>> operation, with computer diagnostic tools replacing a mechanic's
>>>> observation
>>>> and experience.[4] These developments eventually made manufacturers the
>>>> "gatekeepers" of advanced information necessary to repair or supply
>> parts
>>>> to
>>>> motor vehicles..."
>>>>
>>>> Link:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners'_Right_to_Repair_Act
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Thomas O Mehrkam <
>> tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am aware most to the complexity you find in modern engines is the
>>>>> result of EPA regulations. I was not aware the EPA would go after the
>>>>> manufacture for modifications made by a third party.  That is insane.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/2017 9:19 PM, Henry Miller wrote:
>>>>>> I'm an employee of John deere, but I don't speak for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This article is misrepresenting the situation. People claim they
>>>>>> just want to fix things, but when you really press then in it they
>>>>>> will admit what they really want is to disable all the emissions
>>>>>> controls and/or get more power. Of course John deere isn't going to
>>>>>> agree to that, nor will any competitor. The way the law is written
>>>>>> the EPA will be after deere for anyone who modifies their tractor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to work on your tractor, all the codes are in a book
>>>>>> that you can order.  Any heavy duty scan tool which your autoparts
>>>>>> store will sell you will read the codes. That is enough to do most
>>>>>> repairs.  It isn't enough to replace an ecu, but since that only
>>>>>> comes from deere, the dealer should provide the programming.
>>>>>>
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