[AT] OT modern computer controlls

[Howard Fleming]

Nothing really new to add to this, but the story is showing up on some 
of the security sites I check:
https://securityledger.com/2017/03/hobbled-by-dmca-famers-are-jailbreaking-tractors/
https://securityledger.com/2017/03/right-to-repair-on-the-ropes-in-minnesota-motherboard/

and others:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150513/18001030993/john-deere-clarifies-trying-to-abuse-copyright-law-to-stop-you-owning-your-own-tractor-because-it-cares-about-you.shtml

On the subject of computerization, I have owned VWs for years (diesel up 
to recently... :o(, and and while computer controls for engines, etc., 
have their good points, "why" does my radio have to talk to the system?  
Makes is a real pain to add a cd changer to a stock VW radio.... (in the 
past).

For a tractor reference, my 48 Ford 8N has no need for it.... :o).

Howard



On 03/23/2017 02:03 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> My point, Dean, is not really pro-EPA nor con-EPA.  My point is that
> computerization might have been started by emission controls, but that's
> history already.  MANY aspects of modern automobiles (and modern farm
> equipment for that matter) that have nothing at all to do with emissions
> (antilock brakes, traction control, security systems, entertainment
> systems, climate control systems, automatic transmissions, etc) are now
> computerized.  Therefore, repairs that relate to any of these systems now
> tends to require a level of equipment and technical understanding that
> surpasses most shade-tree do-it-yourselfers.
>
> SO
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> The EPA has done some good things to help clean up the air but IMHO have
>> gone way overboard in over regulating causing excessive cost increases for
>> manufactures.  There has to be some kind of reasonable balance.   We are
>> not
>> at that point right now.
>>
>> Dean VP
>> Apache junction, AZ
>>
>> It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Offiler
>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 7:20 AM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT modern computer controlls
>>
>> I don't intended to sound like I'm disagreeing with Thomas.  I think his
>> EPA
>> comment does in fact apply to the basic history of modern engine
>> complexity.
>> But as usual the story is a lot more complex than that.  I lifted the
>> following from Wikipedia because I agree and so it saves me a bunch of time
>> trying to summarize what I know about Right To Repair legislation and
>> controversy (I work in the automotive aftermarket, and occasionally some of
>> this stuff touches me professionally)
>>
>> "...The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments required all vehicles built after
>> 1994 to include on-board computer systems to monitor vehicle emissions. The
>> bill also required automakers to provide independent repairers the same
>> emissions service information as provided to franchised new car dealers.
>> California further passed legislation requiring that all emissions related
>> service information and tools be made available to independent shops.
>> Unlike the Clean Air Act, the California bill also required the car
>> companies to maintain web sites which contained all of their service
>> information and which was accessible on a subscription basis to repair
>> shops
>> and car owners.
>>
>> As automotive technology advanced, computers came to control the vital
>> systems of every vehicle, including brakes, ignition keys, air bags,
>> steering mechanisms and more.[3] Repairing motor vehicles became a
>> high-tech
>> operation, with computer diagnostic tools replacing a mechanic's
>> observation
>> and experience.[4] These developments eventually made manufacturers the
>> "gatekeepers" of advanced information necessary to repair or supply parts
>> to
>> motor vehicles..."
>>
>> Link:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners'_Right_to_Repair_Act
>>
>>
>> SO
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Thomas O Mehrkam <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am aware most to the complexity you find in modern engines is the
>>> result of EPA regulations. I was not aware the EPA would go after the
>>> manufacture for modifications made by a third party.  That is insane.
>>>
>>> On 3/22/2017 9:19 PM, Henry Miller wrote:
>>>> I'm an employee of John deere, but I don't speak for them.
>>>>
>>>> This article is misrepresenting the situation. People claim they
>>>> just want to fix things, but when you really press then in it they
>>>> will admit what they really want is to disable all the emissions
>>>> controls and/or get more power. Of course John deere isn't going to
>>>> agree to that, nor will any competitor. The way the law is written
>>>> the EPA will be after deere for anyone who modifies their tractor
>>>>
>>>> If you want to work on your tractor, all the codes are in a book
>>>> that you can order.  Any heavy duty scan tool which your autoparts
>>>> store will sell you will read the codes. That is enough to do most
>>>> repairs.  It isn't enough to replace an ecu, but since that only
>>>> comes from deere, the dealer should provide the programming.
>>>>
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