[AT] Ram 3.0 liter Dieselgate

[Cecil Bearden]

This is the way of overreaching government bureaucracies.  I spent 30 
years with the Oklahoma regulatory water agency.    There were many 
times that some of the staff would make new rules that would cost a 
landowner a bunle of money and not really do any thing to help, just 
give the staff something to do.  I would voice my opinion as a landowner 
and a water right holder.  The answer I received was "that's just the 
cost of doing business".   Many years ago, in the analog instrumentation 
era, the allowable for many pollutants was detectable""  now, nearly 
everything is detectable, but they do not know what  is allowable or not 
a problem.....

Cecil in OKla

On 1/14/2017 10:54 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> Does not make a lot of sense.  That in a nutshell is my frustration with
> politics and government in general.  Facts, the laws of physics, chemistry,
> and thermodynamics, all take a back seat at best, and at worst are
> sometimes just plain ignored.  My favorite case in point is the California
> Zero Emission Vehicle standard.  First enacted in 1990 (and the rules have
> evolved many times since then, so I'm mostly speaking of the original) the
> ZEV standard mandated that a certain percentage of all cars sold in CA were
> to have zero emissions.  Either electric or hydrogen.  Aside from GM's
> experimental EV-1, NOBODY had an electric car to sell.  One little
> inconvenient fact.  And then consider the ZEV rule told manufacturers what
> they must sell.  Apparently never realizing that they can't sell what the
> market doesn't want to buy.
>
> SO
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:03 AM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> There is a paper mill near here and lots of my friends work their or did
>> until
>> retirement.  They have a scrubber on their power plant stack.  At one time
>> the states particulate requirement for that stack scrubber was several
>> times
>> lower than the capacity of any measurement device available on the market
>> to
>> detect.
>>
>> Makes  a lot of sense doesn't it?
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dennis Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:52 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Ram 3.0 liter Dieselgate
>>
>> I get frustrated with a government plan to try and reduce emissions here
>> enough to. Bring down worldwide pollution levels, while some neighboring
>> countries are not required to clean up engines and other pollutant sources
>> that much.
>> There is no question that we should not go back to the 60's with no
>> regulations. The real question is how much emissions level is clean enough.
>> Diesels have been targeted because "bad truckers" drive them, and most
>> voters do not drive them. Much like other issues, force someone else to do
>> more or have more pain so I the "average voter" has less pain and cost.
>> Somehow the fact that a diesel can use 30% to 50% less hydrocarbons than
>> gas
>> vehicles does not matter to many pushing these regulations.
>> I have attended official CARB meetings in the past. People there did not
>> care if there was science available to do something, and believe if they
>> just mandated something miracles would happen. There have been times when
>> forced regulation has caused scientific advances. I thing we have reached
>> the limit for the time being where cleaner regulations are not getting
>> breakthroughs each time.
>> The company I used to work for got a fine because we could not prove that
>> we
>> met some emission regulation that was not yet written. This goes to show
>> how
>> absurd things can and sometimes do get.
>> We need some reasonable emission levels, and some other way to motivate
>> changes. Have some reasonable differential tax policy to promote better
>> emission levels. Over time things will improve without stupid arbitrary
>> limits.
>> The VM 3.0 issue seems to be how many events can allow emission level to
>> exceed mores. It is agreed there are some that can, but the government
>> thinks there are too many of these exceptions. I am reasonably sure the
>> government did not specify which ones were acceptable, or how many were
>> acceptable. A bit like a fine for not meeting regulations not yet written.
>>
>> I like my VM 3.0 in my Ram 1500. Earlier this week was getting up to 27 mpg
>> on a trip to Kansas. Last few days 25 mpg with short trips from cabin to
>> town.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2017, at 1:18 PM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/business/epa-emissions-
>> cheating-diesel-fiat-chrysler-jeep-dodge.html?emc=edit_na_
>> 20170112&nlid=31285255&ref=cta
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