[AT] Ram 3.0 liter Dieselgate

charlie hill charliehill at embarqmail.com
Sat Jan 14 07:51:08 PST 2017


"The Chinese actually have emissions standards on their coal plants.  Now,
I can't say I know anything about their rates of compliance, but it's not a
free-for-all as has been implied."

A friend of mine is one of the top stunt pilots in the world. 
(http://hubietolson.com/)
He recently flew two airshows in China.  I was talking with him in a local 
café recently
about the China shows.  Another guy asked him about air restrictions in 
China.  He
said the air space is highly restricted but that it did not matter in his 
case.  He said they
fly strictly visual flight rules and that if he got as much as a mile away 
from either of
the two airports he couldn't see how to get back.  Not from fog or dark, 
from air pollution.
The two airports were in cities a hundred or more miles apart so it wasn't 
just a localized
situation.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen Offiler
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 9:11 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Ram 3.0 liter Dieselgate

Some factors to consider Cecil:

- volcanoes emit huge quantites of ash/soot/particulate, CO2, SO2, H2O...
but they don't emit serious quantites of NOx.  And the diesel discussion is
really all about NOx.  Of the five emissions that are controlled:  Diesels
are lower in (#1) CO2 due to thermal efficiency, lower in (#2) CO and (#3)
HC due to lean-burn, but higher in (#4) NOx and (#5) particulates.  Then,
consider that particulates are pretty well covered by the DPF (diesel
particulate filter) and it literally boils down to NOx.

- The Chinese actually have emissions standards on their coal plants.  Now,
I can't say I know anything about their rates of compliance, but it's not a
free-for-all as has been implied.

- The immediate effects of NOx are localized, not global.  The case in
point is the smog in Los Angeles.  If you think back, the earliest
emissions standards were tighter in CA than the rest of the nation.
Remember cars with "California Emissions" vs. "49-State Emissions"?
Because the problems can be fairly local, they actually started out by
trying to keep the solution fairly local too.

SO


On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:

> I suppose that I have been sheltered from the smog and bad air quality
> living my entire life in Oklahoma.   Here, the air is changed at least
> every 15  minutes!!  The wind here is a minimum 8 mph and that low is
> only experienced 3 or 4 days a month.   Wile I realize that man does
> have some effect on the air as Grant discussed about California,  all
> that work is lost when a Volcano blows its lid somewhere in the World.
> Or as mentioned, another country puts up Power plants with no regard to
> emissions. Perhaps we need to station reverse wind generators on our
> coasts that will blow the pollution away from out nation.
>
> My view is getting very jaded as I get older.  I have worked since I was
> 8 years old to get ahead.  Now as I each the age when I should be able
> to enjoy the fruits of that labor, I have to be constantly vigilant to
> prevent politicians, thieves, foreign governments, and the poor excuses
> for roadways in this state from taking it all away.   As Will Rogers
> once said,  "We sure are not getting all the government we are paying
> for" !!
>
> I mention the roadways because Oklahoma has some of the worst in the
> nation, and our County roadways are like Asphalt trails after a low
> level air raid.  As a matter of fact, last week, my neighbor found a 50
> lb anvil at the side of the road near an especially rough section!!!!
>
> On a better note, I rebuilt the injection pump on the 60KW Onan
> Generator with the Allis Chalmers engine (same as in a 190XT tractor).
> It would run about 3 minutes and die after I installed it,  The shut off
> solenoid decided to fail when I put it back together.   $85 and a 1 hour
> trip to the pump shop fixed that...
>
> The Roosa Master and CAV pumps have a vinyl ring between the governor
> and the drive plate inside the pump.  Time and fuel additives cause the
> ring to deteriorate.   If you have ever heard a John deere rev up and
> down while setting idle, that  is usually the problem if the pump is 20
> years old.  There is a solid governor drive plate now available.  It is
> $50 extra and most shops don't replace it as the new vinyl ring is
> included in the $50 gasket kit. While it took me over a day to get the
> pump rebuilt, the pump shop would have charged $500 plus another $185
> for the parts I installed.   The pump has to be taken apart to replace
> that vinyl ring, but if the engine was running OK before, The
> calibration stand work is not really necessary.  If any of you guys want
> to try to rebuild your own pumps I can give you places to call for
> parts, and links to rebuild literature.
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
> On 1/13/2017 3:59 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> > Don, I am widely in agreement with essentially everything your son 
> > wrote,
> > with just one tiny nitpick. The urea injection systems have nothing to 
> > do
> > with particulates, they're for controlling NOx only.  I'd bet he knows
> this
> > and just slipped on the wording.  Particulates are handled by a
> completely
> > separate device in the exhaust system called the Diesel Particulate
> Filter,
> > a physical filter, not a chemistry experiment.
> >
> > The beauty of the diesel engine is that it can run at very high cylinder
> > temperatures and pressures with very lean fuel mixtures.  This creates
> > higher thermal efficiency, simply put, more heat from the burning fuel
> > moves the vehicle down the road and less goes out the radiator and
> > exhaust.  However high temperature and pressure forces nitrogen to hook
> up
> > with oxygen, creating NOx compounds (mostly NO2, NO3, and N2O).  Can't
> have
> > it both ways, says the laws of physics.  Either reduce NOx by reducing
> > cylinder temperature and pressure in various ways (his choice "b")
> > including lower compression, lower turbo boost, greater EGR, etc... thus
> > creating a diesel that performs more like a gas engine; or reduce NOx
> using
> > a chemistry lab behind the engine to break apart the NOx back into
> harmless
> > N2 and O2 molecules (his choice "a")
> >
> > On a separate note, thanks also to Grant Brians for lending some
> real-world
> > perspective on the reasons our government chose to control auto 
> > emissions
> > and the success they achieved.
> >
> > SO
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Don <don.bowen at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/12/2017 5:45 PM, David Bruce wrote:
> >>> The other issue is the regs being reasonable but if they had to cheat
> to
> >>> meet the regs there is an issue. Not an insider but seems to me if one
> >>> was doing it others were.
> >> The following is from my son on the earlier VW scandal.  He is an
> >> account executive for Jaguar Land Rover and has written several books 
> >> on
> >> automobile performance modifications.
> >>
> >> "I meant to send this to you - I sent the below response to people at 
> >> my
> >> agency who were asking about the scandal:
> >>
> >> This goes back to the simple fact that there are only two possible ways
> >> for a Diesel engine to meet CA/EPA Nox and particulate emissions: a)
> >> Urea injection or b) Destroy performance and engine life. Choose a and
> >> the designers have to find a way to make the car not run when the tank
> >> runs dry, and risk annoying consumers who are used to low maintenance
> >> engines. Choose b and no one will buy your Diesel car.
> >>
> >> Here’s the list of manufacturers that chose to use Urea injection:
> >> Jaguar Land Rover, BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Chevy, Allison, Chrysler
> >> (Cummins), Volvo trucks, Audi, VW (Passat)
> >>
> >> Here’s the manufacturers that chose to go without Urea: IH/Navistar
> >> (almost destroyed their company when the engines failed early and had 
> >> to
> >> be recalled), Mazda (caused them to delay/cancel launch of the Mazda6 
> >> in
> >> the U.S.), VW (except Passat)
> >>
> >> VW thought they could get the best of both worlds by fooling the
> >> regulators into thinking the cars are cleaner than they really are. ALL
> >> manufacturers game the EPA testing to some extent but this case is
> >> extremely egregious because of the difference in how the cars run. And
> >> of course because they got caught.
> >>
> >> Happy to chat more if anyone wants more back story – this is one of the
> >> reasons Diesel engines are not popular in the U.S."
> >>
> >> --
> >> Don Bowen       --AD0NB--
> >>
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