[AT] It's trying, but... no lift

Cecil Bearden crbearden at copper.net
Sat Sep 17 04:33:24 PDT 2016


Well like any good design, some idiot has to screw it up by complicating 
things.  One of the reasons that Massey Ferguson wen pankrupt on the  I 
have an 1850 Oliver and a 2-105 White.  Both the same tractors except 
for the PTO clutch.  both are independent, but the 1850 is actuated by a 
lever and the 2-105 has a hyd clutch.  Guess which one has the most 
hours and which one has had over $1000 spent in parts to repair?  When 
using the 1000 RPM on the 2-105, the clutch will not hold at less than 
1000 engine rpm due to low clutch pressure.   The repair is to replace 
the $2000 Vickers hyd Piston pump.  On the 1850 we just tighten the 
spring.  The hyd gear pump on the 1850 is also just a $600 replacement 
cost.     In use, the hyd clutch PTO actuates much "harder"than the 
manual PTO clutch.   When I used to have a baler that had to be stopped 
to eject the bale, I would have to idle the tractor before engaging the 
pto on the 2-105 as when it engaged, it would go from 0 to 540 in 0.25 
seconds.  Same with a 15ft mower.  On the 1850, I could ease the clutch 
into engagement.

Just another case of the technology not really improving things.

In that picture, that coupling was the drive fuse in the earlier 
models.  You could remove a cotter pin in the shaft and push that 
coupling back and remove both the shaft and the coupling.  I would think 
you would have to do that to remove the plate with the lever.  Perhaps 
then you could get to the filter.   As one of the other posts 
recommended, there is a roller in the 1xx series, the earlier ones did 
not have the roller.

Cecil in OKla


On 9/17/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Williams wrote:
> Cecil,
>
> I read on TractorByNet that the IPTO machines have two filters, and that the
> lift cover has to come off to clean them.
>
> "For IPTO it will be necessary to remove the top cover to gain access to the
> hydraulic filters. To service the hydraulic lift pump filter the pressure
> regulating valve must be removed. The PTO pump has a separate filter which
> you should service (clean with solvent and compressed air) at this time. You
> will want a service manual and parts book for working on this tractor. The
> attached photo shows the hydraulic pumps for an IPTO-equipped MF 135. You
> can clearly see why you wouldn't want to remove the PTO lever cover without
> first disconnecting the pressure port line from the PTO lever cover on IPTO
> tractors."
>
> http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/massey-ferguson-owning-operating/329014-1
> 964-massey-ferguson-150-a-3.html
>
> Happily, I have a fully functioning lift now, so I don't have to worry about
> those filters just yet.
>
> Scott in Penfield NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 4:44 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Subject: Re: [AT] It's trying, but... no lift
>
> Please send a picture of the side of your transmission under the seat.
> The tractor I was referring to has an independent PTO.  I may be mistaken
> about which side cover has to be taken off, most of the time we took both
> off.  The PTO shaft runs inside of the transmission shaft.  It goes through
> and drives the pump at engine speed, then is connected to a reduction
> gearbox by a sliding collar that is connected to the PTO shift lever on the
> side cover.
>
> Cecil in oKla
>
>
>
> On 9/16/2016 12:46 PM, Scott Williams wrote:
>> Cecil,
>>
>> I'll try to go through this list if suggestions, thanks.
>>
>> My PTO is "independent", and from what I've read, I can't just pull
>> the side cover and see the filter screen in there, like the "live" pto
>> machines.  I think my only option to clean the screen is to pull the
>> lift cover.  I'm not very excited about that, and if I do attempt it,
>> it will have to be after I find all my tools, AND after I clear out and
> reorganized my old garage.
>> We're knocking down *most* of the burned house, but I'm keeping the
>> family room and garage (the family room will make a good workshop.)
>> But that's all in the future.  Right now I'm sitting in an un-painted
>> room on a camping chair, because until the painters finish, my couch,
>> chair, and other furniture have to stay in "storage" (which is the
>> garage and the basement.)
>>
>> Scott in Penfield NY
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
>> Bearden
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:30 AM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AT] It's trying, but... no lift
>>
>> Those systems were a piston pump with an unloader valve and a relief
> valve.
>> I have seen a few relief valves go bad in my years of working with
>> Ferguson systems, but it is rare.  It is possible that sitting out in
>> the open over the winter in NY created enough condensation that the
>> spring in the relief valve rusted and broke.  The control/relief
>> valves were pretty reliable, but they had their issues.  My first
>> guess is that the rings in the top deck hydraulic piston have broken and
> the oil is
>> leaking by in the lift piston.   There is also the possibility tht this
>> machine has set for so long and then moved around and loosened up the
>> crud in the bottom of the sump and the screen has picked it up.
>>
>> Please note the what I am going to tell  you is from the regular 135
>> tractors and the 35 tractors.  The vineyard may be different,
>> conceptually they are the same..   A good FACTORY service manual is
>> invaluable here.   I got burned by I&T manuals, so I really do not
>> recommend them anymore.  The Wisconsin historical society may have a
>> reprint of the manual available for you.  They have a lot and their
>> charge for reprints is really cheap.
>>
>> On the lift control quadrant ( right side hyd lift lever )  There
>> should be
>> 2 levers.  The long one for lift and the short one for draft.
>> Sometimes the draft control will over ride the lift.  The draft
>> control lever(short one with the square metal knob) should be between
>> the 2 arrows that say draft on the quadrant.  It should be stamped into
> the metal.
>>      That knob should be in the center between the arrows.  Then try to
>> raise the lift with the other lever.  if not, leave the lift lever a
>> little below the top and then move the draft lever to see if anything
>> happens.  This might fix your problem.  If not see below.  If you are
>> going to change the fluid, you need to clean the screen.
>>
>> On the left side of the transmission, under the seat is a round plate
>> with the PTO lever.  Remove the plate with the lever. Disconnect the
>> PTO shaft and start the tractor with the mower attached.  Raise the
>> lift and watch for fluid draining from the top deck lift piston and
> dripping down
>> into the sump.  A drip is OK, we just do not want a gusher..   If it
>> just drips, your problem is in the bottom.
>>
>> inside the transmission about 4 to 6 inches in the bottom is a filter
>> screen that looks about the size of a pop can It has a top and bottom
>> cup, and is separated about an inch in the middle.  The top half has a
>> metal handle piece that you use to unscrew counterclockwise the top is
>> attached to a bolt that screws into the intake of the pump.  You take
>> the screen with both cups out and wash it out.  This is easiest when
>> the oil is drained.  There are 2 drain plugs,  one under the front of
>> the transmission behind the clutch housing, and the other under the
>> plate you took off. If the screen is full of junk, you have found the
> problem.
>> When you replace the round plate with the PTO lever,  make sure the
>> inside lever goes in the slot of the PTO shifter.
>>
>> If you have any problems, take some pictures and post on here. We will
>> try to fix it remotely!!
>>
>> Cecil in oKla
>>
>>
>> On 9/15/2016 7:38 AM, Bo Hinch wrote:
>>> Sounds to me like you have a piece of trash in the pressure unloader
>>> valve .
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:28 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> Just a few quick thoughts Scott.
>>>>
>>>> 1)  you used the word "suddenly".  Was it literally fine one minute
>>>> and problematic the next?  Or, did it actually go away sort of
> gradually?
>>>> 2)  Have you tried it again since?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve O.
>>>> PS:  when I'm faced with draining ~8 gallons (I've got about 7
>>>> gallons in my modern-ish Ford 1520 hydrostat)  I drain part of it
>>>> and stick the drain plug back in, then deal with the amount (2-3
>>>> gallons) I've drained, then repeat as required.  OK, yeah, putting
>>>> the drain plug back into a stream of draining oil is a bit messy
> admittedly.
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