[AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine

Tue Oct 4 04:16:47 PDT 2016

Have bit gad a conversation like this since WALT.

On 10/3/2016 10:16 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> "...or most anyone on this list for that matter..."
>
> Really Charlie, I try to be civil... and I'll admit that I'm human, and
> maybe I fail sometimes.  However I *certainly* take your comment as quite
> pointedly un-civil, and furthermore, I don't know why you believe you speak
> for most anyone else on the list.
>
> Basically your previous comment on this Northstar starter subject is
> nothing but a rather silly conspiracy theory.  I offered a logical
> alternative from my perspective, gained from working in the periphery of
> the automotive industry for my whole career, and I was using I believed to
> be a polite tone.  So I don't understand the passive-aggressive nature of
> your reply.
>
> Oh - wait - was that supposed to be rhetorical?
>
> SO
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 8:14 AM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Stephen, if you ever agree with me or most anyone on this list for
>> that matter, it will make Breaking News on the Fox News Network.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stephen Offiler
>> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 5:31 AM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine
>>
>> I don't know, Charlie.  Literally I have no facts about GM's strategies,
>> and I don't know if I agree with your assessment either.  I think, if that
>> was a real goal, there's a lot of parts I could pick before a starter,
>> which can go on average a very long time without replacement.  Second,
>> after warranty (figure most starters last past the warranty period) people
>> tend more toward their local garages vs the dealer.  That is a fact.
>> Third, most dealerships I'm familiar with separate the service department
>> from the sales department.  In these cases someone bringing a car in for
>> service has no interaction with any sales geeks.  That can vary from place
>> to place of course.
>>
>> But again I have no facts here.  I think putting the starter in the V is
>> pretty stupid but I think it must have been driven by an edict to make the
>> engine externally as small as possible in order to shoehorn it into smaller
>> engine bays.  It might be a "Cadillac" engine but you can bet that during
>> the design stages when that starter location got locked into the design,
>> they could not predict where the engine would eventually be used.  That
>> would be the marketing department driving the decision, which is one of the
>> things I mentioned earlier.
>>
>> SO
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 3:47 PM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Steve you are right, most times these things are driven by bean counters
>>> and
>>> lawyers but
>>> a starter under the intake????  That's just an excuse to force the owner
>>> to
>>> bring it back to the
>>> dealer for service so the sales geeks can talk them into trading for the
>>> latest model.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stephen Offiler
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2016 5:00 PM
>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine
>>>
>>> Speaking for all the engineers out there, I'm going to default to:
>> "there
>>> has GOT to be more to this story"  There's practically always a
>>> bean-counter or a marketing executive and sometimes even a lawyer
>> cracking
>>> a whip behind the downtrodden engineer, with stupidity resulting.
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Doug Tallman <dtallman at accnorwalk.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still have a job, you ask? He won the most screwed up innovation of the
>>>> year award. Not only did he get a big bonus and a raise, he's now
>> highly
>>>> sought after by all the other auto manufacturers.  :-) Doug T
>>>>
>>>> On 10/1/2016 3:51 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>>>>> Starter inside the engine?  SAY WHAT?????????
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that engineer still have a job?
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>
>>>>
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