[AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine

[Cecil Bearden]

Charlie:

I traded off a good 2cycle Polaris ATV because the starter only lasted 1 
year the way we used it and it took 4-6 hours to change it and it was 
$100 aftermarket.  I used to keep a spare 350 chevy starter in the back 
of my 80  suburban and could change it in the parking lot in 30 
minutes.  I had an extra solenoid mounted on the frame and only one wire 
went to the starter.  We have had every starter replaced on our4 cycle  
ATVs at least 2 times.  and they are a 20 minute job.  I would agree, 
there is no place outside of that  N* engine to put a starter.  
Underneath the manifold seems to be a ridiculous place, but at least it 
is not inside the oil pan.  You can stand up to replace it....  That 
said, whenever I rebuild an engine or replace a transmission, I rebuild 
or replace the starter.  In an overhaul, I also replace or rebuild the 
alternator. Hoses and every wear part attached.   It costs nearly the 
same as the engine parts when I get done, but I don't have to worry 
about calling a tow truck to get home.

I am leaning on rebuilding this N* engine myself with the studs from N* 
performance in ND.  I would send it to them for rebuild, but I think I 
can save about $1500 doing it myself.  I will also send the transmission 
out to a good rebuilder I know for a complete rebuild.  With only 71K 
miles on it, I will have a near new automobile that can cruise 
anywhere.   I am sorta leaning on seeing the country in a few years.

Cecil in OKla


On 10/3/2016 7:14 AM, charlie hill wrote:
> Stephen, if you ever agree with me or most anyone on this list for
> that matter, it will make Breaking News on the Fox News Network.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Offiler
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 5:31 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine
>
> I don't know, Charlie.  Literally I have no facts about GM's strategies,
> and I don't know if I agree with your assessment either.  I think, if that
> was a real goal, there's a lot of parts I could pick before a starter,
> which can go on average a very long time without replacement.  Second,
> after warranty (figure most starters last past the warranty period) people
> tend more toward their local garages vs the dealer.  That is a fact.
> Third, most dealerships I'm familiar with separate the service department
> from the sales department.  In these cases someone bringing a car in for
> service has no interaction with any sales geeks.  That can vary from place
> to place of course.
>
> But again I have no facts here.  I think putting the starter in the V is
> pretty stupid but I think it must have been driven by an edict to make the
> engine externally as small as possible in order to shoehorn it into smaller
> engine bays.  It might be a "Cadillac" engine but you can bet that during
> the design stages when that starter location got locked into the design,
> they could not predict where the engine would eventually be used.  That
> would be the marketing department driving the decision, which is one of the
> things I mentioned earlier.
>
> SO
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 3:47 PM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Steve you are right, most times these things are driven by bean counters
>> and
>> lawyers but
>> a starter under the intake????  That's just an excuse to force the owner
>> to
>> bring it back to the
>> dealer for service so the sales geeks can talk them into trading for the
>> latest model.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stephen Offiler
>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2016 5:00 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine
>>
>> Speaking for all the engineers out there, I'm going to default to:  "there
>> has GOT to be more to this story"  There's practically always a
>> bean-counter or a marketing executive and sometimes even a lawyer cracking
>> a whip behind the downtrodden engineer, with stupidity resulting.
>> SO
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Doug Tallman <dtallman at accnorwalk.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Still have a job, you ask? He won the most screwed up innovation of the
>>> year award. Not only did he get a big bonus and a raise, he's now highly
>>> sought after by all the other auto manufacturers.  :-) Doug T
>>>
>>> On 10/1/2016 3:51 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>>>> Starter inside the engine?  SAY WHAT?????????
>>>>
>>>> Does that engineer still have a job?
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>
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