[AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine - Now OT clay soil?

[Cecil Bearden]

I do consulting for Crown Foundation Inc. of Oklahoma City.  My first 
response to your question is "Run away as fast as you can". These guys 
give you  a guarantee and promise the moon, but you are going to have 
problems in the future.   The steel piers driven to bedrock are really 
2-7/8 oilfield tubing pushed into the ground until refusal using the 
house for the pressure to drive the pipe. The ends of the pipe are not 
welded shut, so you are looking at a friction pile.  When water follows 
down the pipe, the friction is lost.  That is why they install 
foundation drains.  When the perimeter is leveled, then concrete is 
injected under the slab either from the perimeter, or inside thru the slab.

Bell hole pilings are the best if drilled to rock or good shale. It is 
an expensive process.  If you can get the owner to pay for the repair 
and hire an outside foundation consultant to review the installation, 
and get a 20 yr or more guarantee, then you might be OK.  If they give 
you the house I would go for it.   I have been the consultant on 50 or 
more foundation issues in Oklahoma's expansive  red clay.   My own house 
that I built 31 yrs ago. was built with a typical 12 x 18 footing under 
a monolithic slab with 18in of sand under the slab.  The house has 
settled and cracked in 2 places.  Partly due to the contractor 
installing 2 inches of sand under the footing before pouring.  When the 
soil cracks as much as 3 ft deep in this area, and we get those monsoon 
rains in the summer, the sand runs into the cracks and out from under 
the footing.  The footing settles.

Gutters and downspouts with drains will help.  Anything to keep the 
foundation at a constant moisture will help.

Just my experience and $0.02 as a professional engineer.  I would find 
an engineer with a lot of gray hairs who has worked in that area.

Cecil in OKla


On 10/2/2016 2:25 AM, Scott Williams wrote:
> First, let me know if I should take this off the list, I know I like hearing
> what you guys have to say about a lot of technical topics, but I'm kinda new
> around here...
>
> Cecil,
>
> A house we're interested in is bank-owned (a foreclosure, I assume) and is
> priced very low, because, we're told, is it has "significant foundation
> issues."  The part of town it's in is known for having expansive clay soil,
> which I've read "moves" a lot with moisture ups and downs.  This home was
> built in 2001, and appears to have been made with relatively good quality
> (my opinion, having seen houses made with staples vs. nails, for example.)
> Also, possibly relevant, it is sitting at the very top of one of the biggest
> hills around, so that no water flows to it, only away from it.  I suspect
> that an entire neighborhood was built around this expansive soil, and only
> later was it learned which houses and been placed in the really bad spots.
>
> I read as much as I could about foundation "repair" for this type of
> situation, most of what I read was from parts of Texas, they must have this
> problem pretty bad, for all the technical articles I've found about it
> there.  Mostly about different types of piers and piles driven or dug and
> poured through the "active" soil into stable soil.  Anyway, interested in
> any advice.  I'd especially like to know what are the "right questions" I
> should be asking a foundation repair guy.  The repair guy there is a
> structural engineer, presumably familiar with this problem that's fairly
> common to the neighborhood.  In Texas, there seems to be quite a debate
> about the more expensive "bell bottom piers" vs. driven steel or concrete
> piles. Of course, each argued by the guys who install that type.  I don't
> think anyone said anything negative about the success rate of bell bottom
> piers, just that they can be difficult to install if the holes crumble or
> collapse when dug (based on soil type) and that they're expensive.  The guys
> who install them claim the driven piles are a crapshoot, might not drive
> down to stable ground, and don't really "lock the foundation down" if the
> soil tries to move upward.  My worry, of course, is that the piers are too
> expensive, and that the guys who install the piles will say they're just
> fine, but how would I know if they're right?  I have read articles saying it
> all depends on the specific foundation, and using the right solution for the
> problem.  So I'd like to know what to ask, to be sure the foundation guy
> knows his stuff.  I also wonder if simply doing some drains around the
> foundation, and putting gutters on the house, would be enough to solve the
> problem.  Currently, the house has an enormous roof, and no gutters.  In
> Snowflake, they have a couple of rainy seasons, beginning and end of summer,
> as I understand it (monsoon season.)  I wonder if having done nothing to
> control runoff could be the major contributor to this problem after only 15
> years, and a whole army of "professionals" now want to make a living
> "fixing" it when really just some well-designed drains and the superficial
> "jack up the slab" repair would work.  You can see my optimism getting ahead
> of me, here!  Wouldn't it be nice if "foundation issues" kept any other
> buyers away while we finish our house in NY, but could be fixed permanently
> without major issues?
>
> We still have 5 of our children living with us, so this home won't be our
> "forever after" home, it's too big for that (it's very big), but it would be
> great for us for the near future, especially if my father ends up moving in
> with us.  If the house has a chance of increasing in value with a repaired
> foundation, that would be great to know, or rather, I'd like to know if a
> "repair" isn't really anything more than a band aid.
>
> I'd much prefer to have something done right than read the fine print on
> somebody's "guarantee" five years later when my doors stop closing properly.
> I am not there, so I haven't seen it in person yet, but if I do spend the
> money to go there, I'd like to know everything I can beforehand.
>
> Scott in Penfield NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2016 10:14 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Cadillac Northstar engine
>
> I graduated in 1975 from OK State Univ. w/ a B.S. degree in Ag Engineering.
> I interviewed with every tractor manufacturer that came to
> talk to us.   I talked with several short line manufacturers one of
> which was Hesston.  None would hire me.  J.I. Case sent an engineer from
> Racine to interview.  He took me to lunch.  He told me that none of the ag
> manufacturers would hire a person who had been on the farm.  They only came
> to the interviews to make a presence.  He told me that he would love to see
> me go to work for them, but that I would never go anywhere in the company
> because I had worked on tractors and knew how they were maintained.  I would
> be too disruptive to their operations.
>
> I was heartbroken and tried for 2 more years to work for an Ag
> manufacturer.   Finally gave up and stayed at home and went to work for
> the State of OK as an engineer in charge of the safety of Dams.  I made the
> first inspection of a dam in OK under President Carters program and the 8th
> inspection in the US.  I was re-trained as a civil engineer specializing in
> hydrology, hydraulics, and foundations.  I got training from the Army corps
> of engineers, US Bureau of Reclamation and the Soil Conservation Service.
> 30 years later I retired and now do consulting.
> I still wish I had stayed in manufacturing, but the merger and acquisition
> of the 80's and 90's and the bankruptcy of Massey Ferguson just shattered
> the market for engineers in agriculture.
>
> When I see the new machinery, I remember what the J I Case engineer told
> me...
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
>
> On 10/1/2016 7:58 PM, Thomas O Mehrkam wrote:
>> Not the only one.
>>
>> Land rover has a starter under the intake manifold.
>>
>> Found that out trying to change the starter in a auto parts parking
>> lot.  About 7 hours labor to change the *&^%% starter.
>>
>> On 10/1/2016 3:36 PM, Doug Tallman wrote:
>>> Still have a job, you ask? He won the most screwed up innovation of
>>> the year award. Not only did he get a big bonus and a raise, he's now
>>> highly sought after by all the other auto manufacturers.  :-) Doug T
>>>
>>> On 10/1/2016 3:51 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>>>> Starter inside the engine?  SAY WHAT?????????
>>>>
>>>> Does that engineer still have a job?
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
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