[AT] OT LED question

Jason dejoodster at gmail.com
Mon Nov 7 13:16:05 PST 2016 

There are 6v led lights

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016, 11:40 AM Ken Knierim <ken.knierim at gmail.com> wrote:

> Stephen,
>     Boost circuits are common and can use transformers or single inductors.
> For getting the ground isolated (for positive to negative ground as an
> example) you need a transformer based unit (NOT one with an LM series
> regulator). There are a bunch of hobby types available. Here's one:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Voltage-Regulator-Transformer-Converter/dp/B018QPW6HA/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1478539412&sr=8-14&keywords=drok+boost+transformer
>
>
> and another one:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Power-Inverter-6v-Positive-Ground/dp/B004P9NX9C/ref=pd_sbs_263_6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=4DHSFH7KAD170EYD8XNP
>
> They're cheap enough I can't justify building one myself.
>
> And the light I'm tinkering with:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/LOHAS%C2%AE-White-Power-Energy-Saving/dp/B00CZ75TWA/ref=pd_bxgy_23_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FAA0K62HQ3WK0FNCWDS2
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ken in AZ
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ken:
> >
> > Curious about that booster.  What does it do, run low-DC input voltage
> thru
> > an inverter, then a step-up transformer, then a rectifier?  That's pretty
> > interesting and seems kind of obvious now, but I must say it's not
> > something I've ever encountered.  What are the output electrical ratings?
> >
> > My experience is in fairly low-wattage stuff... with modern LED's making
> > over 100 lumens per watt, you only need a handful of watts to make
> > significant light.  A low-wattage boost-type LED driver circuit works by
> > charging and rapidly switching an inductor (kinda-sorta like an ignition
> > system, come to think of it)
> >
> > Then again, I'm an ME... I only pretend to understand this EE stuff...
> >
> > SO
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Ken Knierim <ken.knierim at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >     If I ever get my round tuits refilled I've picked up a transformer
> > > based DC-DC booster for converting 4-5 VDC to 12 VDC with the intention
> > of
> > > putting a set of LED lights on my '41 Case DH and using the original 6V
> > > positive ground electrical system. I've had the parts for months but
> that
> > > project never seems to get to the level of "get 'r done". Maybe this
> year
> > > after hunting season. (ha!)
> > >     I also experimented with a 100 watt LED that includes its own lens.
> > Not
> > > very expensive but requires and comes with a rather sizeable heatsink.
> My
> > > thinking was that I might make up a set of driving lights for some of
> my
> > > older cars that can reach out and touch something. A pair of 100 watt
> > LED's
> > > set to around 50-70 watt output seems like it would be perfect.
> > >     What I've found is that folks in newer vehicles (with modern
> lights)
> > > tend to ignore the old cars as far as dimming to oncoming traffic. Once
> > in
> > > a while I'd like to gently "remind" them to be courteous. And have
> lights
> > > for those long dark desert roads that itch "need" to be driven. :)
> > >
> > > Ken in AZ
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Dave <rotigel at me.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Cecil,
> > > >         My guess is that you do not drive your 37 Plymouth very
> often,
> > or
> > > > far, at night. Why not mount a 12 volt set of removable headlights on
> > the
> > > > bumper and connect them to a fully charged 12 volt battery under the
> > hood
> > > > that could also be removed (and hidden in the trunk) for “show”
> times?
> > > >         Dave
> > > > PS, ’37 was a remarkable year—at least from my perspective!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Nov 6, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Re: My old 1937 Plymouth with the 6 volt lights.   I really need to
> > > find
> > > > > a listing on the bulb that is supposed to be used in the
> reflectors.
> > > If
> > > > > the filament is not in the right place, it would certainly make a
> > > > > difference.  I have kept it all original, including the interior.
> >  If
> > > I
> > > > > can find 6 volt led headlight assemblies, I could mount them on the
> > > > > bumper like fog lights and It would solve the problem.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/6/2016 6:36 PM, rlgoss at twc.com wrote:
> > > > >> This is the first time I have seen a discussion of this topic in
> > more
> > > > than 40 years.  My father was a design engineer for GE for most of
> his
> > > > career, and he used to describe this process to me.  (Feeling
> nostalgic
> > > > here.)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Larry
> > > > >> ---- Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> That's very interesting, Herb!  I know zero about tungsten
> > > metallurgy,
> > > > but
> > > > >>> it certainly sounds like they were worried about something at the
> > > ingot
> > > > >>> level, something like impurity levels perhaps.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Accelerated life testing of incandescents is pretty easy.  Just
> > boost
> > > > the
> > > > >>> voltage.  There is a very strong, but also very predictable, life
> > > > reduction
> > > > >>> at elevated voltages.  I found this graph that puts it all
> together
> > > > pretty
> > > > >>> nicely.  You can see several things here; for example, see how
> the
> > > > efficacy
> > > > >>> increases at elevated voltage (chart says efficacy is up 20% for
> a
> > > 10%
> > > > >>> voltage increase)  and life is cut by about 2/3 at that same
> point.
> > > > With
> > > > >>> voltage up 20%, life is shortened by over 90%.  You can
> life-test a
> > > > 2000-hr
> > > > >>> bulb and get answers in less than a week.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Voltage.htm
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> SO
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Herb Metz <metz-h.b at comcast.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Stephen's post is interesting, and as always, informative.
> > Decades
> > > > ago
> > > > >>>> (1960's), when I was an engineer at GE (Appliance Control Dept),
> > we
> > > > had a
> > > > >>>> tour of a GE lighting manufacturing facility.  Even though their
> > > > ingots for
> > > > >>>> bulb filament were special, as one would expect, they would
> make a
> > > > short
> > > > >>>> production run of bulbs from each ingot (this was my
> understanding
> > > at
> > > > that
> > > > >>>> time), then accelerate life test these bulbs before using that
> > > ingot.
> > > > >>>> Looking back, wish someone would have questioned: accelerated
> test
> > > > method,
> > > > >>>> number of filaments/ingot (1,000's, maybe millions), criteria
> for
> > > > >>>> determining if ingot was useable, etc.  I have no idea as to
> when
> > GE
> > > > >>>> started
> > > > >>>> large scale manufacturing of incandescant bulbs; nor how long
> they
> > > > >>>> continued
> > > > >>>> this above practice. Herb(GA)
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> ----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>> From: Stephen Offiler
> > > > >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:53 AM
> > > > >>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Charlie, I do not believe I expressed or implied ANY doubt about
> > > your
> > > > >>>> convenience-store 100W bulbs.  What I posted was the details of
> > the
> > > > Act of
> > > > >>>> Congress that created this situation, not exclusively directed
> at
> > > > you, but
> > > > >>>> also for the others on the list who might be interested in what
> > > > happened to
> > > > >>>> the incandescent bulb.  I also mentioned one way (did not say it
> > was
> > > > the
> > > > >>>> ONLY way) an EISA compliant 100W incandescent can be built
> > > (halogen).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Draw your own conclusions, everyone.  Are old-school
> incandescent
> > > > bulbs
> > > > >>>> actually still legal?  Well, if labeled "Rough Service" the
> answer
> > > is
> > > > yes.
> > > > >>>>   Is Charlie's convenience store selling legal bulbs?  Are there
> > > > other ways
> > > > >>>> to make a legal 100W bulb?  That question is interesting and
> I've
> > > > commented
> > > > >>>> a bit on that too.  The Act requires increased efficiency, which
> > in
> > > > >>>> lighting engineering is called efficacy.  It is lumens (light
> > > > quantity)
> > > > >>>> divided by the electricity in watts needed to create that light.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> An incandescent bulb can be designed with a heavy filament that
> > runs
> > > > cooler
> > > > >>>> and resists burning out, but the efficacy suffers.  These are
> the
> > > > outlawed
> > > > >>>> bulbs.  Or they can be designed with a light filament that runs
> > hot
> > > > and
> > > > >>>> puts out more light per watt.  In theory, such a bulb can be
> made
> > to
> > > > comply
> > > > >>>> with EISA.  The problem is that light, hot-running filament will
> > > burn
> > > > out
> > > > >>>> very rapidly.  It is at least possible that the
> convenience-store
> > > > bulbs are
> > > > >>>> of this nature.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Halogens are interesting because they a light, hot filament that
> > > > resists
> > > > >>>> burnout because the halogen gases (such as Argon, Krypton, etc)
> > > > actually
> > > > >>>> hold the tungsten molecules and allow them to re-plate back onto
> > the
> > > > >>>> filament, basically recycling them, instead of letting the
> > filament
> > > > erode.
> > > > >>>> That is the basic magic of halogen bulbs.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> SO
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, charlie hill <
> > > > charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Steve I don't doubt what you are saying but you seem to doubt
> > > > everything
> > > > >>>>> I say.  I'm telling you the man is selling old style
> incandescent
> > > > bulbs.
> > > > >>>>> I
> > > > >>>>> don't
> > > > >>>>> know how he gets them or if they are legal but they are NOT
> > > halogen,
> > > > >>>>> disguised or not.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Charlie
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>> From: Stephen Offiler
> > > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 9:29 PM
> > > > >>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Thank you, Ken.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Charlie, I merely stated a few facts regarding 100W
> > incandescents.
> > > > >>>>> Nothing
> > > > >>>>> I said was intended to argue against anything you said.  You
> are
> > > > reading
> > > > >>>>> way too much into this.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I would go on to explain the concept of efficacy in lighting,
> and
> > > how
> > > > >>>> much
> > > > >>>>> it varies with incandescents of the conventional as well as the
> > > > halogen
> > > > >>>>> variety, and how you can still design a conventional
> > (non-halogen)
> > > > 100W
> > > > >>>>> incan but there's no free lunch; if it meets government
> > regulations
> > > > its
> > > > >>>>> life will be a small fraction of what you'd call reasonable.
> But
> > > > I'll
> > > > >>>>> stop
> > > > >>>>> here to keep the peace.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> SO
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Ken Knierim <
> > ken.knierim at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> Charlie, please ease up. Steve is a talented, detail-oriented
> > > > engineer
> > > > >>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>> he's correct. halogen lamps are a type of incandescent light.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Rough service bulbs can still be made here in the US last I
> > knew.
> > > > It's
> > > > >>>> a
> > > > >>>>>> corner case they allowed for awhile.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> In Arizona the ballasts in the CFL's do NOT like the heat and
> > die
> > > > >>>>>> frequently. And don't break one or you have mercury to deal
> > with.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Since I (may) sell and service semiconductor equipment for
> Cree
> > I
> > > am
> > > > >>>>>> partial to their hardware (can't say for certain due to
> lawyers
> > of
> > > > >>>>>> course),
> > > > >>>>>> but any new technology will have its warts. The
> > Phillips/Lumileds
> > > > parts
> > > > >>>>>> seem to be rated for higher temp operation and that's
> important
> > > for
> > > > >>>>>> outdoor
> > > > >>>>>> lighting here. The Feit Electric (chinese) parts have a higher
> > > > failure
> > > > >>>>>> rate
> > > > >>>>>> in my limited tested.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Ken in AZ
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Charlie, are they by any chance what they refer to as a heavy
> > > duty
> > > > or
> > > > >>>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>> rough service bulb? I know they can still make those
> legally. I
> > > got
> > > > >>>> so
> > > > >>>>>>> tired of the florescent squiggly bulbs in our barn, try
> feeding
> > > > >>>> horses
> > > > >>>>>>> at 4 AM, when it's 0 degrees outside, all I would get is a
> > faint
> > > > >>>> glow.
> > > > >>>>>>> Replaced all the bulbs with _300 watt_ incandescent bulbs,
> now
> > I
> > > > >>>>>>> actually see and work on my tan.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Mike M
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On 11/4/2016 6:22 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>> There you go again Steve.  I TOLD YOU IT IS A 100 WATT
> > > > INCANDESCENT
> > > > >>>>>> BULB.
> > > > >>>>>>>> Did I say anything about a halogen bulb inside a
> incandescent
> > > > >>>>>>>> envelope?
> > > > >>>>>>>> I know you think I'm stupid but give it a break man.  Do you
> > > have
> > > > >>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>> argue
> > > > >>>>>>>> with
> > > > >>>>>>>> EVERYTHING anyone says to you??????????????????????????????
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Charlie
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>>>>> From: Stephen Offiler
> > > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 5:47 PM
> > > > >>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> The act of Congress that imposed efficiency restrictions on
> > > > >>>>>>>> lighting,
> > > > >>>>>>>> effectively outlawing those old-school 100 watt incandescent
> > > > bulbs,
> > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > >>>>>>>> signed into law by President Bush in 2007.  It's called the
> > > EISA,
> > > > >>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>> Energy Independence and Security Act.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> It is possible to manufacture a 100-watt bulb that meets
> EISA,
> > > > with
> > > > >>>>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>>> halogen bulb inside a normal incandescent glass envelope.
> It
> > > > would
> > > > >>>>> be
> > > > >>>>>>>> cheaper to manufacture this design in low-labor-cost
> countries
> > > > such
> > > > >>>>> as
> > > > >>>>>>>> China.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Why does my local power company  subsidize the purchase of
> LED
> > > > >>>>>>>> bulbs?
> > > > >>>>>>>> Seems backward, doesn't it?  They are going to be selling me
> > > less
> > > > >>>>>>>> electricity.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> SO
> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>> AT mailing list
> > > > >>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > > > >>>>
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