[AT] OT LED question

Mon Nov 7 08:53:52 PST 2016

Hi Ken:

Curious about that booster.  What does it do, run low-DC input voltage thru
an inverter, then a step-up transformer, then a rectifier?  That's pretty
interesting and seems kind of obvious now, but I must say it's not
something I've ever encountered.  What are the output electrical ratings?

My experience is in fairly low-wattage stuff... with modern LED's making
over 100 lumens per watt, you only need a handful of watts to make
significant light.  A low-wattage boost-type LED driver circuit works by
charging and rapidly switching an inductor (kinda-sorta like an ignition
system, come to think of it)

Then again, I'm an ME... I only pretend to understand this EE stuff...

SO

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Ken Knierim <ken.knierim at gmail.com> wrote:

>     If I ever get my round tuits refilled I've picked up a transformer
> based DC-DC booster for converting 4-5 VDC to 12 VDC with the intention of
> putting a set of LED lights on my '41 Case DH and using the original 6V
> positive ground electrical system. I've had the parts for months but that
> project never seems to get to the level of "get 'r done". Maybe this year
> after hunting season. (ha!)
>     I also experimented with a 100 watt LED that includes its own lens. Not
> very expensive but requires and comes with a rather sizeable heatsink. My
> thinking was that I might make up a set of driving lights for some of my
> older cars that can reach out and touch something. A pair of 100 watt LED's
> set to around 50-70 watt output seems like it would be perfect.
>     What I've found is that folks in newer vehicles (with modern lights)
> tend to ignore the old cars as far as dimming to oncoming traffic. Once in
> a while I'd like to gently "remind" them to be courteous. And have lights
> for those long dark desert roads that itch "need" to be driven. :)
>
> Ken in AZ
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Dave <rotigel at me.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Cecil,
> >         My guess is that you do not drive your 37 Plymouth very often, or
> > far, at night. Why not mount a 12 volt set of removable headlights on the
> > bumper and connect them to a fully charged 12 volt battery under the hood
> > that could also be removed (and hidden in the trunk) for “show” times?
> >         Dave
> > PS, ’37 was a remarkable year—at least from my perspective!
> >
> >
> > > On Nov 6, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Re: My old 1937 Plymouth with the 6 volt lights.   I really need to
> find
> > > a listing on the bulb that is supposed to be used in the reflectors.
> If
> > > the filament is not in the right place, it would certainly make a
> > > difference.  I have kept it all original, including the interior.   If
> I
> > > can find 6 volt led headlight assemblies, I could mount them on the
> > > bumper like fog lights and It would solve the problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/6/2016 6:36 PM, rlgoss at twc.com wrote:
> > >> This is the first time I have seen a discussion of this topic in more
> > than 40 years.  My father was a design engineer for GE for most of his
> > career, and he used to describe this process to me.  (Feeling nostalgic
> > here.)
> > >>
> > >> Larry
> > >> ---- Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> That's very interesting, Herb!  I know zero about tungsten
> metallurgy,
> > but
> > >>> it certainly sounds like they were worried about something at the
> ingot
> > >>> level, something like impurity levels perhaps.
> > >>>
> > >>> Accelerated life testing of incandescents is pretty easy.  Just boost
> > the
> > >>> voltage.  There is a very strong, but also very predictable, life
> > reduction
> > >>> at elevated voltages.  I found this graph that puts it all together
> > pretty
> > >>> nicely.  You can see several things here; for example, see how the
> > efficacy
> > >>> increases at elevated voltage (chart says efficacy is up 20% for a
> 10%
> > >>> voltage increase)  and life is cut by about 2/3 at that same point.
> > With
> > >>> voltage up 20%, life is shortened by over 90%.  You can life-test a
> > 2000-hr
> > >>> bulb and get answers in less than a week.
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Voltage.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> SO
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Herb Metz <metz-h.b at comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Stephen's post is interesting, and as always, informative.  Decades
> > ago
> > >>>> (1960's), when I was an engineer at GE (Appliance Control Dept), we
> > had a
> > >>>> tour of a GE lighting manufacturing facility.  Even though their
> > ingots for
> > >>>> bulb filament were special, as one would expect, they would make a
> > short
> > >>>> production run of bulbs from each ingot (this was my understanding
> at
> > that
> > >>>> time), then accelerate life test these bulbs before using that
> ingot.
> > >>>> Looking back, wish someone would have questioned: accelerated test
> > method,
> > >>>> number of filaments/ingot (1,000's, maybe millions), criteria for
> > >>>> determining if ingot was useable, etc.  I have no idea as to when GE
> > >>>> started
> > >>>> large scale manufacturing of incandescant bulbs; nor how long they
> > >>>> continued
> > >>>> this above practice. Herb(GA)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Stephen Offiler
> > >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:53 AM
> > >>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Charlie, I do not believe I expressed or implied ANY doubt about
> your
> > >>>> convenience-store 100W bulbs.  What I posted was the details of the
> > Act of
> > >>>> Congress that created this situation, not exclusively directed at
> > you, but
> > >>>> also for the others on the list who might be interested in what
> > happened to
> > >>>> the incandescent bulb.  I also mentioned one way (did not say it was
> > the
> > >>>> ONLY way) an EISA compliant 100W incandescent can be built
> (halogen).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Draw your own conclusions, everyone.  Are old-school incandescent
> > bulbs
> > >>>> actually still legal?  Well, if labeled "Rough Service" the answer
> is
> > yes.
> > >>>>   Is Charlie's convenience store selling legal bulbs?  Are there
> > other ways
> > >>>> to make a legal 100W bulb?  That question is interesting and I've
> > commented
> > >>>> a bit on that too.  The Act requires increased efficiency, which in
> > >>>> lighting engineering is called efficacy.  It is lumens (light
> > quantity)
> > >>>> divided by the electricity in watts needed to create that light.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> An incandescent bulb can be designed with a heavy filament that runs
> > cooler
> > >>>> and resists burning out, but the efficacy suffers.  These are the
> > outlawed
> > >>>> bulbs.  Or they can be designed with a light filament that runs hot
> > and
> > >>>> puts out more light per watt.  In theory, such a bulb can be made to
> > comply
> > >>>> with EISA.  The problem is that light, hot-running filament will
> burn
> > out
> > >>>> very rapidly.  It is at least possible that the convenience-store
> > bulbs are
> > >>>> of this nature.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Halogens are interesting because they a light, hot filament that
> > resists
> > >>>> burnout because the halogen gases (such as Argon, Krypton, etc)
> > actually
> > >>>> hold the tungsten molecules and allow them to re-plate back onto the
> > >>>> filament, basically recycling them, instead of letting the filament
> > erode.
> > >>>> That is the basic magic of halogen bulbs.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> SO
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, charlie hill <
> > charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Steve I don't doubt what you are saying but you seem to doubt
> > everything
> > >>>>> I say.  I'm telling you the man is selling old style incandescent
> > bulbs.
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> don't
> > >>>>> know how he gets them or if they are legal but they are NOT
> halogen,
> > >>>>> disguised or not.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Charlie
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: Stephen Offiler
> > >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 9:29 PM
> > >>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thank you, Ken.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Charlie, I merely stated a few facts regarding 100W incandescents.
> > >>>>> Nothing
> > >>>>> I said was intended to argue against anything you said.  You are
> > reading
> > >>>>> way too much into this.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I would go on to explain the concept of efficacy in lighting, and
> how
> > >>>> much
> > >>>>> it varies with incandescents of the conventional as well as the
> > halogen
> > >>>>> variety, and how you can still design a conventional (non-halogen)
> > 100W
> > >>>>> incan but there's no free lunch; if it meets government regulations
> > its
> > >>>>> life will be a small fraction of what you'd call reasonable.  But
> > I'll
> > >>>>> stop
> > >>>>> here to keep the peace.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> SO
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Ken Knierim <ken.knierim at gmail.com
> >
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Charlie, please ease up. Steve is a talented, detail-oriented
> > engineer
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>> he's correct. halogen lamps are a type of incandescent light.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Rough service bulbs can still be made here in the US last I knew.
> > It's
> > >>>> a
> > >>>>>> corner case they allowed for awhile.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In Arizona the ballasts in the CFL's do NOT like the heat and die
> > >>>>>> frequently. And don't break one or you have mercury to deal with.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Since I (may) sell and service semiconductor equipment for Cree I
> am
> > >>>>>> partial to their hardware (can't say for certain due to lawyers of
> > >>>>>> course),
> > >>>>>> but any new technology will have its warts. The Phillips/Lumileds
> > parts
> > >>>>>> seem to be rated for higher temp operation and that's important
> for
> > >>>>>> outdoor
> > >>>>>> lighting here. The Feit Electric (chinese) parts have a higher
> > failure
> > >>>>>> rate
> > >>>>>> in my limited tested.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Ken in AZ
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Charlie, are they by any chance what they refer to as a heavy
> duty
> > or
> > >>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>> rough service bulb? I know they can still make those legally. I
> got
> > >>>> so
> > >>>>>>> tired of the florescent squiggly bulbs in our barn, try feeding
> > >>>> horses
> > >>>>>>> at 4 AM, when it's 0 degrees outside, all I would get is a faint
> > >>>> glow.
> > >>>>>>> Replaced all the bulbs with _300 watt_ incandescent bulbs, now I
> > >>>>>>> actually see and work on my tan.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Mike M
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 11/4/2016 6:22 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> There you go again Steve.  I TOLD YOU IT IS A 100 WATT
> > INCANDESCENT
> > >>>>>> BULB.
> > >>>>>>>> Did I say anything about a halogen bulb inside a incandescent
> > >>>>>>>> envelope?
> > >>>>>>>> I know you think I'm stupid but give it a break man.  Do you
> have
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>>> argue
> > >>>>>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>> EVERYTHING anyone says to you??????????????????????????????
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Charlie
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>> From: Stephen Offiler
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 5:47 PM
> > >>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> The act of Congress that imposed efficiency restrictions on
> > >>>>>>>> lighting,
> > >>>>>>>> effectively outlawing those old-school 100 watt incandescent
> > bulbs,
> > >>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>> signed into law by President Bush in 2007.  It's called the
> EISA,
> > >>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>> Energy Independence and Security Act.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> It is possible to manufacture a 100-watt bulb that meets EISA,
> > with
> > >>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> halogen bulb inside a normal incandescent glass envelope.  It
> > would
> > >>>>> be
> > >>>>>>>> cheaper to manufacture this design in low-labor-cost countries
> > such
> > >>>>> as
> > >>>>>>>> China.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Why does my local power company  subsidize the purchase of LED
> > >>>>>>>> bulbs?
> > >>>>>>>> Seems backward, doesn't it?  They are going to be selling me
> less
> > >>>>>>>> electricity.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> SO
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> AT mailing list
> > >>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> AT mailing list
> > >>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> AT mailing list
> > >> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > AT mailing list
> > > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AT mailing list
> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>