[AT] Need help with newer compact tractor

Mike M meulenms at gmx.com
Tue May 24 13:05:21 PDT 2016 

Thanks Steve, got my tractor back today, all fixed with no leaks. I 
think the Traveller fluid is probably fine, but I'm going to replace it 
with Mobilfluid 424 anyway just to know that I have a top quality fluid 
in the tractor. I think sometimes the additive packages in the less 
expensive fluids may suffer, it's hard to sell cheap and good.  They 
could not find the reason why the o-rings in the power steering block 
had failed. They did say that a lot of loader work, and pinning the 
steering wheel to the stops can cause increased temperatures in that 
area. I have done a tremendous amount of loader work with the tractor, 
so that could be the case I will be more mindful of that in the future, 
although I know I don't make a habit of doing it.

Regards,

Mike M

On 5/24/2016 5:28 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> Hey Mike, back to Traveller fluid for a minute.  I emailed TSC yesterday
> asking for detailed specifications and MSDS.  They responded very promptly
> but only sent the MSDS.  I was hoping to drive the last nail on that
> viscosity thing, but to no avail.  Nothing I could find useful in the MSDS,
> not even the real manufacturer.  It lists... TSC themselves in the Mfg.
> category.  It's PDF and I can forward it to anyone interested but I don't
> think I can't post it here.
>
> SO
>
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> That started with the 2011 model line up as far as I know. I'll double
>> check my manual though. Should have just stuck with the M1 synthetic, I
>> plan to drive this truck until it's only good for parts.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/23/2016 9:48 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>> Mike, does that 6.2 require Dexos oil?
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Funny you should say that Cecil, my daily driver is a 2010 Chevy 1500
>>>> 6.2 gasser. I usually run 5/30 Mobil 1 Synthetic  in it and have since
>>>> it was new to me with 45,000 miles on it. It now has 88,000 miles on it
>>>> and needed the oil changed. I do it myself because everything is really
>>>> easy to get to . This time however I went with Pennzoil 5/30 regular
>>>> oil, because it was on sale. I had knee surgery on Monday, so my wife
>>>> has had to drive me around. Now when it's cold and I get in the
>>>> passenger side I hear what appears to be a rod knock or piston slap, not
>>>> bad, but enough that I noticed. I'm just wondering if it's always been
>>>> there, and I've never heard it because I was in the cab when I started
>>>> it, or if it's new because of the oil. I've never had any problem with
>>>> Pennzoil in fact my small engines love the stuff.
>>>>
>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/22/2016 7:09 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>>> The oil that I checked on through the API website was classified as
>>>>> being from new oil.  The re-run is listed as from recycled oil.  Warren
>>>>> now cans way too much oil to be only a re-refiner.   I think they
>> bottle
>>>>> nearly 75% of the retail oil.  That said, I put Valvoline Nextgen
>> 10w-30
>>>>> in my replacement engine in my f-150 to flush out whatever was in
>> there,
>>>>> and 3000 miles later it had to go to the shop for a noise we thought
>> was
>>>>> the A/C clutch and I had the guy change the oil while it was there
>>>>> because the filter is nearly impossible to get to. I had my own oil in
>>>>> the back and he put in some O'reilly parts house oil 5w-30 and it
>>>>> knocked every time I started it.   I had to add a qt of Lucas oil to
>>>>> stop the knock.    It was at the level mark after 2000 miles..  I
>>>>> replaced it with some more Nextgen and it does not use nor leak oil
>>>>> after another 4000 miles of some high speed driving.   It needs
>> changing
>>>>> now and is still at the full mark....   I bought about 15 5qt jugs of
>>>>> that oil at O'reilly auto parts for $3 a jug.  I was going to use it
>> for
>>>>> cheap hyd fluid etc, but it turned out to be ok for that truck so I
>> just
>>>>> keep it for that one...
>>>>>
>>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/22/2016 1:19 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>>>>>> Cecil,  Warren Petroleum is based in Dunn, North Carolina (or were
>>>> anyway).
>>>>>> About 30 years ago when they were a much smaller company
>>>>>> I had the transmission fluid changed in a Chevy pickup. When I
>>>>>> went to pick the truck up he was just finishing and I saw the empty
>>>>>> oil jugs on the bench.  They were the wrong oil.  I forget which one
>>>>>> but not Dexron.  I got on the guy and he swore there was no
>> difference.
>>>>>> I knew he was wrong, or lying, and took the truck to another shop and
>>>>>> had the fluid changed again. But, just to prove to myself that I was
>>>> right
>>>>>> I called Warren Oil.  I told you all of that to tell you this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I called they actually put Mr. Warren on the phone.  I've never
>>>> been
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> impressed by someone I called on the phone.  He took the time to tell
>>>> me in
>>>>>> great detail all about the different grades of ATF and went on to tell
>>>> me
>>>>>> about his
>>>>>> company.  They are a re-processor of used oil but unless they have
>>>> changed
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> do so with great care and attention to quality.  I have no problem
>> with
>>>>>> anything they
>>>>>> make.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I say they are a re-processor.  That was a long time ago and
>>>>>> I don't know if they have "graduated" into manufacture from raw
>>>> materials or
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Cecil Bearden
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:05 PM
>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Need help with newer compact tractor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike:
>>>>>> I wrestle with the oil price thing every day with so many engines and
>>>>>> systems I have here, and the lack of funds.   I really don't think
>> that
>>>>>> one can know enough about the  oil he uses.   I have found  a good
>> motor
>>>>>> oil ( Ranch Pro bottled by Warren Petroleum ) at the local farm store
>>>>>> and it has proven to be better than Mystic that I used for many years.
>>>>>> I really do not trust Mystic products like I once did.  They just do
>> not
>>>>>> seem to be as good since Total bought them..  I also do use any
>>>>>> hydraulic oil additive in my Hydrostatic drives.   I was severely
>>>>>> admonished for it by the hydrostat rebuilder when I talked to them....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 6:03 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks Cecil, I think we're getting to the bottom of this, as soon as
>>>> my
>>>>>>> tractor gets home, I'm dropping the fluid and re-filling with Gulf or
>>>>>>> other higher quality equivalent. What seems expensive now will be
>> cheap
>>>>>>> once the tractor is out of warranty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 5:45 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mike:
>>>>>>>> That TSC oil states it is a multi grace or multi Vis.  I found
>>>> somewhere
>>>>>>>> it was a 10W30 or 40, If so, and the viscosity improvers are working
>>>>>>>> correctly or maybe a little more concentrated, then the viscosity
>>>> could
>>>>>>>> be too thick at the higher heat.  That 400 SUS is at 100F, while the
>>>>>>>> others are specified at 100C, another 112 deg F higher......   I had
>>>>>>>> this same problem with the hydrostat trans in my old JD2750 Swather.
>>>> I
>>>>>>>> found out later that the transmission is no longer available nor
>>>>>>>> repairable.  I had to buy a used one.   The "yellow Bucket" THF I
>>>> bought
>>>>>>>> for $19.99 was too thick for the system.  This I was told by the
>>>> company
>>>>>>>> rep who used to overhaul these transmissions made by Vickers.  I
>>>> bought
>>>>>>>> John Deere  Hytran that replaces the original 303 fluid.  It surely
>>>> does
>>>>>>>> sound like your oil is overheating.  You may have a good civil case
>>>>>>>> against TSC, but chances of getting any results within our lifetime
>>>> are
>>>>>>>> slim and none.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         I had an 1155 V-8 Massey that was a good 130hp tractor, but
>> we
>>>> had
>>>>>>>> some leaks in the rear lift cylinders.   My Dad topped off the lift
>>>> oil
>>>>>>>> with a barrel of Lathe and Milling machine Way oil I had bought
>>>> surplus
>>>>>>>> from a retired machinist for $250.   That oil was over $35/gal in a
>>>> drum
>>>>>>>> at the time.  It had an extra stickiness. The entire hydraulic
>> system
>>>>>>>> turned to crap and it would barely move anything.  It started
>> leaking
>>>> at
>>>>>>>> every seal.   My retired father was just too busy to drive 10 miles
>> to
>>>>>>>> buy a $25 bucket of the cheap stuff that would have worked fine..
>> It
>>>>>>>> was my fault according to him because I did not hide the barrel from
>>>>>>>> him!!!! It was marked in 4 inch letters WAY OIL  !    We ended up
>>>>>>>> selling the tractor for $2000 to the Mexican market.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I use that yellow bucket stuff in my old dozers and trackhoe.  I
>> have
>>>>>>>> noticed that if you open the bucket the additives are concentrated
>> at
>>>>>>>> the bottom.   I try to turn the bucket over for an hour before I
>> pour
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> into the tank....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 12:42 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Cecil, I think you and Steve might be on to something with the
>>>>>>>>> viscosity. I wish the Traveller brand oil would give me the
>>>> Centistokes
>>>>>>>>> value at 100C and I suspect I could call on Monday and find out.
>>>> Because
>>>>>>>>> I've noticed a lack in hydraulic power the service guy adjusted the
>>>>>>>>> pressure to 2900 lbs, which is over the 2700 Mahindra calls for.
>> He's
>>>>>>>>> not concerned with that as long as the bypass isn't being tripped.
>> I
>>>>>>>>> think a change in oil may be in order. If the pump is hunting for
>>>> oil it
>>>>>>>>> could be introducing air into the system.  I managed to find the
>> Gulf
>>>>>>>>> product at a local Autozone store of all places.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 1:07 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I looked up some viscosity sites, and 20w motor oil is 68
>>>> centistokes
>>>>>>>>>> and 30w is 100 centistokes.   57.5 would be closer to 10W motor
>> oil
>>>>>>>>>> which is what my old Ingersoll compressor calls for or Dexron ATF
>> or
>>>>>>>>>> type A transmission fluid. So, I would be thinking that the oil is
>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>> thick and the pump is scavenging and giving you a mixture of oil
>> and
>>>>>>>>>> air
>>>>>>>>>> which can do weird things to rubber components at high pressure.
>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>> also do not know  if this tractor works at 3000 psi or 1500
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 7:26 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mike:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When fluids are REALLY different, they can certainly eat up
>> seals.
>>>>>>>>>>> But the
>>>>>>>>>>> magnitude of difference I am talking about is like the difference
>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>> brake fluid and petroleum-based oils.   For example:    DOT 3, 4,
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> 5.1
>>>>>>>>>>> require EPDM rubber for seals.  But if EPDM sees petroleum, it
>>>> softens
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> swells... like 25% or more.  Like a frost heave, this swelling is
>>>>>>>>>>> impossible to contain.  It extrudes itself right out the glands.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For this to be the case, what came out of that TSC pail would
>> have
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty wrong, is my gut feel.  But someone could have really
>>>> screwed
>>>>>>>>>>> up at
>>>>>>>>>>> the factory I suppose... in that case you would not be the only
>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> problems!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is this the fluid you put in?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid-5-gal
>>>>>>>>>>> One thing to note here is the viscosity.  TSC fluid specs 400
>>>> Saybolt
>>>>>>>>>>> Universal Seconds (SUS or SSU) at 100F (38C).  An online
>> calculator
>>>>>>>>>>> tells
>>>>>>>>>>> me 400 SUS is 86.2 Centistokes.  They SHOULD, but fail, to say
>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>> about viscosity index and viscosity at elevated temperature 100C.
>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>> looked up the Gulf fluid you mentioned, one that Mahindra
>>>> specifically
>>>>>>>>>>> calls for, and find it is 57.5 CentiStokes at 40C.  Whoa.  57.5
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>>>>> different from 86.2.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure what to make of all this and nothing I'm saying here is
>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>>> definitive, just trying to shed some more light on the situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> So about a year ago I bought a Mahindra 4035 40 HP diesel
>>>> tractor. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> starts, runs and works fine, but I've had some problems with
>> leaks
>>>>>>>>>>>> lately. At the 100 hour mark Mahindra wanted me to change the
>>>>>>>>>>>> hydraulic
>>>>>>>>>>>> filter, which sits on the side of the rear housing. I talked to
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> service guy at the dealership and he said I'd lose about 2
>>>> gallons of
>>>>>>>>>>>> fluid when I did that, even with the one rear tire up on a
>> block.
>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>> holds 10 gallons overall, and TSC had their premium universal
>>>>>>>>>>>> hydraulic/transmission fluid on sale (which states it meets or
>>>> exceed
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mahindra specs)  for $35 for 5 gallons. For me it seemed like a
>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>> brainer to just dump the fluid and replace it rather that trying
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> guess how much I'd lose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything went fine, I had to remove a side cover as well as
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> filter
>>>>>>>>>>>> to get to a screen they wanted to have cleaned on the first
>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>> only. After that the tractor performed as it should but after
>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> 50
>>>>>>>>>>>> hours I've started to develop leaks in the hydraulic system.
>> They
>>>>>>>>>>>> fixed
>>>>>>>>>>>> one by a large square diverter valve under the tractor and today
>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> are fixing another leak from the power steering block up by the
>>>>>>>>>>>> steering
>>>>>>>>>>>> wheel.  I called today and talked to the service guy and he says
>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> are puzzled because the leaking o-rings they are looking at
>> today
>>>>>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>>>>>> burned, as if exposed to excessive heat. Another concern that I
>>>>>>>>>>>> brought
>>>>>>>>>>>> up to them is that the loader doesn't seem to have quite the
>>>> lifting
>>>>>>>>>>>> capacity as when it was new.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My question is, can fluid cause these type of problems? In the
>>>> manual
>>>>>>>>>>>> they call our for Mahindra fluid, Gulf Universal Tractor
>>>> Transmission
>>>>>>>>>>>> fluid, Mobil 424, Shell Donax and a few others, all of which are
>>>>>>>>>>>> nearly
>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible to find.  Can a fluid be SO wrong that it would cause
>>>>>>>>>>>> problems? Right now they are looking at anything that might be
>>>>>>>>>>>> causing a
>>>>>>>>>>>> continual "deadheading" situation, but with that little 3
>> cylinder
>>>>>>>>>>>> diesel I think I would notice that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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