[AT] Need help with newer compact tractor

Tue May 24 02:28:44 PDT 2016

Hey Mike, back to Traveller fluid for a minute.  I emailed TSC yesterday
asking for detailed specifications and MSDS.  They responded very promptly
but only sent the MSDS.  I was hoping to drive the last nail on that
viscosity thing, but to no avail.  Nothing I could find useful in the MSDS,
not even the real manufacturer.  It lists... TSC themselves in the Mfg.
category.  It's PDF and I can forward it to anyone interested but I don't
think I can't post it here.

SO

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:

> That started with the 2011 model line up as far as I know. I'll double
> check my manual though. Should have just stuck with the M1 synthetic, I
> plan to drive this truck until it's only good for parts.
>
> Mike M
>
>
>
> On 5/23/2016 9:48 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> > Mike, does that 6.2 require Dexos oil?
> >
> > SO
> >
> > On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Funny you should say that Cecil, my daily driver is a 2010 Chevy 1500
> >> 6.2 gasser. I usually run 5/30 Mobil 1 Synthetic  in it and have since
> >> it was new to me with 45,000 miles on it. It now has 88,000 miles on it
> >> and needed the oil changed. I do it myself because everything is really
> >> easy to get to . This time however I went with Pennzoil 5/30 regular
> >> oil, because it was on sale. I had knee surgery on Monday, so my wife
> >> has had to drive me around. Now when it's cold and I get in the
> >> passenger side I hear what appears to be a rod knock or piston slap, not
> >> bad, but enough that I noticed. I'm just wondering if it's always been
> >> there, and I've never heard it because I was in the cab when I started
> >> it, or if it's new because of the oil. I've never had any problem with
> >> Pennzoil in fact my small engines love the stuff.
> >>
> >> Mike M
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/22/2016 7:09 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>> The oil that I checked on through the API website was classified as
> >>> being from new oil.  The re-run is listed as from recycled oil.  Warren
> >>> now cans way too much oil to be only a re-refiner.   I think they
> bottle
> >>> nearly 75% of the retail oil.  That said, I put Valvoline Nextgen
> 10w-30
> >>> in my replacement engine in my f-150 to flush out whatever was in
> there,
> >>> and 3000 miles later it had to go to the shop for a noise we thought
> was
> >>> the A/C clutch and I had the guy change the oil while it was there
> >>> because the filter is nearly impossible to get to. I had my own oil in
> >>> the back and he put in some O'reilly parts house oil 5w-30 and it
> >>> knocked every time I started it.   I had to add a qt of Lucas oil to
> >>> stop the knock.    It was at the level mark after 2000 miles..  I
> >>> replaced it with some more Nextgen and it does not use nor leak oil
> >>> after another 4000 miles of some high speed driving.   It needs
> changing
> >>> now and is still at the full mark....   I bought about 15 5qt jugs of
> >>> that oil at O'reilly auto parts for $3 a jug.  I was going to use it
> for
> >>> cheap hyd fluid etc, but it turned out to be ok for that truck so I
> just
> >>> keep it for that one...
> >>>
> >>> Cecil in OKla
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/22/2016 1:19 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> >>>> Cecil,  Warren Petroleum is based in Dunn, North Carolina (or were
> >> anyway).
> >>>> About 30 years ago when they were a much smaller company
> >>>> I had the transmission fluid changed in a Chevy pickup. When I
> >>>> went to pick the truck up he was just finishing and I saw the empty
> >>>> oil jugs on the bench.  They were the wrong oil.  I forget which one
> >>>> but not Dexron.  I got on the guy and he swore there was no
> difference.
> >>>> I knew he was wrong, or lying, and took the truck to another shop and
> >>>> had the fluid changed again. But, just to prove to myself that I was
> >> right
> >>>> I called Warren Oil.  I told you all of that to tell you this.
> >>>>
> >>>> When I called they actually put Mr. Warren on the phone.  I've never
> >> been
> >>>> more
> >>>> impressed by someone I called on the phone.  He took the time to tell
> >> me in
> >>>> great detail all about the different grades of ATF and went on to tell
> >> me
> >>>> about his
> >>>> company.  They are a re-processor of used oil but unless they have
> >> changed
> >>>> they
> >>>> do so with great care and attention to quality.  I have no problem
> with
> >>>> anything they
> >>>> make.
> >>>>
> >>>> I say they are a re-processor.  That was a long time ago and
> >>>> I don't know if they have "graduated" into manufacture from raw
> >> materials or
> >>>> not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Charlie
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Cecil Bearden
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:05 PM
> >>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Need help with newer compact tractor
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike:
> >>>> I wrestle with the oil price thing every day with so many engines and
> >>>> systems I have here, and the lack of funds.   I really don't think
> that
> >>>> one can know enough about the  oil he uses.   I have found  a good
> motor
> >>>> oil ( Ranch Pro bottled by Warren Petroleum ) at the local farm store
> >>>> and it has proven to be better than Mystic that I used for many years.
> >>>> I really do not trust Mystic products like I once did.  They just do
> not
> >>>> seem to be as good since Total bought them..  I also do use any
> >>>> hydraulic oil additive in my Hydrostatic drives.   I was severely
> >>>> admonished for it by the hydrostat rebuilder when I talked to them....
> >>>>
> >>>> Cecil in OKla
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/21/2016 6:03 PM, Mike M wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks Cecil, I think we're getting to the bottom of this, as soon as
> >> my
> >>>>> tractor gets home, I'm dropping the fluid and re-filling with Gulf or
> >>>>> other higher quality equivalent. What seems expensive now will be
> cheap
> >>>>> once the tractor is out of warranty.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike M
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/21/2016 5:45 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>>>>> Mike:
> >>>>>> That TSC oil states it is a multi grace or multi Vis.  I found
> >> somewhere
> >>>>>> it was a 10W30 or 40, If so, and the viscosity improvers are working
> >>>>>> correctly or maybe a little more concentrated, then the viscosity
> >> could
> >>>>>> be too thick at the higher heat.  That 400 SUS is at 100F, while the
> >>>>>> others are specified at 100C, another 112 deg F higher......   I had
> >>>>>> this same problem with the hydrostat trans in my old JD2750 Swather.
> >> I
> >>>>>> found out later that the transmission is no longer available nor
> >>>>>> repairable.  I had to buy a used one.   The "yellow Bucket" THF I
> >> bought
> >>>>>> for $19.99 was too thick for the system.  This I was told by the
> >> company
> >>>>>> rep who used to overhaul these transmissions made by Vickers.  I
> >> bought
> >>>>>> John Deere  Hytran that replaces the original 303 fluid.  It surely
> >> does
> >>>>>> sound like your oil is overheating.  You may have a good civil case
> >>>>>> against TSC, but chances of getting any results within our lifetime
> >> are
> >>>>>> slim and none.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>        I had an 1155 V-8 Massey that was a good 130hp tractor, but
> we
> >> had
> >>>>>> some leaks in the rear lift cylinders.   My Dad topped off the lift
> >> oil
> >>>>>> with a barrel of Lathe and Milling machine Way oil I had bought
> >> surplus
> >>>>>> from a retired machinist for $250.   That oil was over $35/gal in a
> >> drum
> >>>>>> at the time.  It had an extra stickiness. The entire hydraulic
> system
> >>>>>> turned to crap and it would barely move anything.  It started
> leaking
> >> at
> >>>>>> every seal.   My retired father was just too busy to drive 10 miles
> to
> >>>>>> buy a $25 bucket of the cheap stuff that would have worked fine..
> It
> >>>>>> was my fault according to him because I did not hide the barrel from
> >>>>>> him!!!! It was marked in 4 inch letters WAY OIL  !    We ended up
> >>>>>> selling the tractor for $2000 to the Mexican market.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I use that yellow bucket stuff in my old dozers and trackhoe.  I
> have
> >>>>>> noticed that if you open the bucket the additives are concentrated
> at
> >>>>>> the bottom.   I try to turn the bucket over for an hour before I
> pour
> >> it
> >>>>>> into the tank....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cecil in OKla
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/21/2016 12:42 PM, Mike M wrote:
> >>>>>>> Cecil, I think you and Steve might be on to something with the
> >>>>>>> viscosity. I wish the Traveller brand oil would give me the
> >> Centistokes
> >>>>>>> value at 100C and I suspect I could call on Monday and find out.
> >> Because
> >>>>>>> I've noticed a lack in hydraulic power the service guy adjusted the
> >>>>>>> pressure to 2900 lbs, which is over the 2700 Mahindra calls for.
> He's
> >>>>>>> not concerned with that as long as the bypass isn't being tripped.
> I
> >>>>>>> think a change in oil may be in order. If the pump is hunting for
> >> oil it
> >>>>>>> could be introducing air into the system.  I managed to find the
> Gulf
> >>>>>>> product at a local Autozone store of all places.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mike M
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 1:07 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I looked up some viscosity sites, and 20w motor oil is 68
> >> centistokes
> >>>>>>>> and 30w is 100 centistokes.   57.5 would be closer to 10W motor
> oil
> >>>>>>>> which is what my old Ingersoll compressor calls for or Dexron ATF
> or
> >>>>>>>> type A transmission fluid. So, I would be thinking that the oil is
> >> too
> >>>>>>>> thick and the pump is scavenging and giving you a mixture of oil
> and
> >>>>>>>> air
> >>>>>>>> which can do weird things to rubber components at high pressure.
> >> We
> >>>>>>>> also do not know  if this tractor works at 3000 psi or 1500
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cecil in OKla
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 7:26 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Mike:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> When fluids are REALLY different, they can certainly eat up
> seals.
> >>>>>>>>> But the
> >>>>>>>>> magnitude of difference I am talking about is like the difference
> >>>>>>>>> between
> >>>>>>>>> brake fluid and petroleum-based oils.   For example:    DOT 3, 4,
> >> and
> >>>>>>>>> 5.1
> >>>>>>>>> require EPDM rubber for seals.  But if EPDM sees petroleum, it
> >> softens
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> swells... like 25% or more.  Like a frost heave, this swelling is
> >>>>>>>>> impossible to contain.  It extrudes itself right out the glands.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For this to be the case, what came out of that TSC pail would
> have
> >> to
> >>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>> pretty wrong, is my gut feel.  But someone could have really
> >> screwed
> >>>>>>>>> up at
> >>>>>>>>> the factory I suppose... in that case you would not be the only
> one
> >>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>> problems!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Is this the fluid you put in?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid-5-gal
> >>>>>>>>> One thing to note here is the viscosity.  TSC fluid specs 400
> >> Saybolt
> >>>>>>>>> Universal Seconds (SUS or SSU) at 100F (38C).  An online
> calculator
> >>>>>>>>> tells
> >>>>>>>>> me 400 SUS is 86.2 Centistokes.  They SHOULD, but fail, to say
> >>>>>>>>> anything
> >>>>>>>>> about viscosity index and viscosity at elevated temperature 100C.
> >> I
> >>>>>>>>> then
> >>>>>>>>> looked up the Gulf fluid you mentioned, one that Mahindra
> >> specifically
> >>>>>>>>> calls for, and find it is 57.5 CentiStokes at 40C.  Whoa.  57.5
> is
> >>>>>>>>> pretty
> >>>>>>>>> different from 86.2.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Not sure what to make of all this and nothing I'm saying here is
> >> real
> >>>>>>>>> definitive, just trying to shed some more light on the situation.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> SO
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So about a year ago I bought a Mahindra 4035 40 HP diesel
> >> tractor. I
> >>>>>>>>>> starts, runs and works fine, but I've had some problems with
> leaks
> >>>>>>>>>> lately. At the 100 hour mark Mahindra wanted me to change the
> >>>>>>>>>> hydraulic
> >>>>>>>>>> filter, which sits on the side of the rear housing. I talked to
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>> service guy at the dealership and he said I'd lose about 2
> >> gallons of
> >>>>>>>>>> fluid when I did that, even with the one rear tire up on a
> block.
> >> It
> >>>>>>>>>> holds 10 gallons overall, and TSC had their premium universal
> >>>>>>>>>> hydraulic/transmission fluid on sale (which states it meets or
> >> exceed
> >>>>>>>>>> Mahindra specs)  for $35 for 5 gallons. For me it seemed like a
> no
> >>>>>>>>>> brainer to just dump the fluid and replace it rather that trying
> >> to
> >>>>>>>>>> guess how much I'd lose.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Everything went fine, I had to remove a side cover as well as
> the
> >>>>>>>>>> filter
> >>>>>>>>>> to get to a screen they wanted to have cleaned on the first
> >> service
> >>>>>>>>>> only. After that the tractor performed as it should but after
> >> about
> >>>>>>>>>> 50
> >>>>>>>>>> hours I've started to develop leaks in the hydraulic system.
> They
> >>>>>>>>>> fixed
> >>>>>>>>>> one by a large square diverter valve under the tractor and today
> >> they
> >>>>>>>>>> are fixing another leak from the power steering block up by the
> >>>>>>>>>> steering
> >>>>>>>>>> wheel.  I called today and talked to the service guy and he says
> >> they
> >>>>>>>>>> are puzzled because the leaking o-rings they are looking at
> today
> >>>>>>>>>> appear
> >>>>>>>>>> burned, as if exposed to excessive heat. Another concern that I
> >>>>>>>>>> brought
> >>>>>>>>>> up to them is that the loader doesn't seem to have quite the
> >> lifting
> >>>>>>>>>> capacity as when it was new.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> My question is, can fluid cause these type of problems? In the
> >> manual
> >>>>>>>>>> they call our for Mahindra fluid, Gulf Universal Tractor
> >> Transmission
> >>>>>>>>>> fluid, Mobil 424, Shell Donax and a few others, all of which are
> >>>>>>>>>> nearly
> >>>>>>>>>> impossible to find.  Can a fluid be SO wrong that it would cause
> >>>>>>>>>> problems? Right now they are looking at anything that might be
> >>>>>>>>>> causing a
> >>>>>>>>>> continual "deadheading" situation, but with that little 3
> cylinder
> >>>>>>>>>> diesel I think I would notice that.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Mike M
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> >> software.
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> AT mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> AT mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> AT mailing list
> >>>>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> software.
> >>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> AT mailing list
> >>>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> AT mailing list
> >>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> ---
> >>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> AT mailing list
> >>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> AT mailing list
> >>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> AT mailing list
> >>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> AT mailing list
> >>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AT mailing list
> >> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > AT mailing list
> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>