[AT] Need help with newer compact tractor
Stephen Offiler
soffiler at gmail.com
Mon May 23 06:48:09 PDT 2016
Mike, does that 6.2 require Dexos oil?
SO
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
> Funny you should say that Cecil, my daily driver is a 2010 Chevy 1500
> 6.2 gasser. I usually run 5/30 Mobil 1 Synthetic in it and have since
> it was new to me with 45,000 miles on it. It now has 88,000 miles on it
> and needed the oil changed. I do it myself because everything is really
> easy to get to . This time however I went with Pennzoil 5/30 regular
> oil, because it was on sale. I had knee surgery on Monday, so my wife
> has had to drive me around. Now when it's cold and I get in the
> passenger side I hear what appears to be a rod knock or piston slap, not
> bad, but enough that I noticed. I'm just wondering if it's always been
> there, and I've never heard it because I was in the cab when I started
> it, or if it's new because of the oil. I've never had any problem with
> Pennzoil in fact my small engines love the stuff.
>
> Mike M
>
>
> On 5/22/2016 7:09 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> > The oil that I checked on through the API website was classified as
> > being from new oil. The re-run is listed as from recycled oil. Warren
> > now cans way too much oil to be only a re-refiner. I think they bottle
> > nearly 75% of the retail oil. That said, I put Valvoline Nextgen 10w-30
> > in my replacement engine in my f-150 to flush out whatever was in there,
> > and 3000 miles later it had to go to the shop for a noise we thought was
> > the A/C clutch and I had the guy change the oil while it was there
> > because the filter is nearly impossible to get to. I had my own oil in
> > the back and he put in some O'reilly parts house oil 5w-30 and it
> > knocked every time I started it. I had to add a qt of Lucas oil to
> > stop the knock. It was at the level mark after 2000 miles.. I
> > replaced it with some more Nextgen and it does not use nor leak oil
> > after another 4000 miles of some high speed driving. It needs changing
> > now and is still at the full mark.... I bought about 15 5qt jugs of
> > that oil at O'reilly auto parts for $3 a jug. I was going to use it for
> > cheap hyd fluid etc, but it turned out to be ok for that truck so I just
> > keep it for that one...
> >
> > Cecil in OKla
> >
> >
> > On 5/22/2016 1:19 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> >> Cecil, Warren Petroleum is based in Dunn, North Carolina (or were
> anyway).
> >> About 30 years ago when they were a much smaller company
> >> I had the transmission fluid changed in a Chevy pickup. When I
> >> went to pick the truck up he was just finishing and I saw the empty
> >> oil jugs on the bench. They were the wrong oil. I forget which one
> >> but not Dexron. I got on the guy and he swore there was no difference.
> >> I knew he was wrong, or lying, and took the truck to another shop and
> >> had the fluid changed again. But, just to prove to myself that I was
> right
> >> I called Warren Oil. I told you all of that to tell you this.
> >>
> >> When I called they actually put Mr. Warren on the phone. I've never
> been
> >> more
> >> impressed by someone I called on the phone. He took the time to tell
> me in
> >> great detail all about the different grades of ATF and went on to tell
> me
> >> about his
> >> company. They are a re-processor of used oil but unless they have
> changed
> >> they
> >> do so with great care and attention to quality. I have no problem with
> >> anything they
> >> make.
> >>
> >> I say they are a re-processor. That was a long time ago and
> >> I don't know if they have "graduated" into manufacture from raw
> materials or
> >> not.
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Cecil Bearden
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:05 PM
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] Need help with newer compact tractor
> >>
> >> Mike:
> >> I wrestle with the oil price thing every day with so many engines and
> >> systems I have here, and the lack of funds. I really don't think that
> >> one can know enough about the oil he uses. I have found a good motor
> >> oil ( Ranch Pro bottled by Warren Petroleum ) at the local farm store
> >> and it has proven to be better than Mystic that I used for many years.
> >> I really do not trust Mystic products like I once did. They just do not
> >> seem to be as good since Total bought them.. I also do use any
> >> hydraulic oil additive in my Hydrostatic drives. I was severely
> >> admonished for it by the hydrostat rebuilder when I talked to them....
> >>
> >> Cecil in OKla
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/21/2016 6:03 PM, Mike M wrote:
> >>> Thanks Cecil, I think we're getting to the bottom of this, as soon as
> my
> >>> tractor gets home, I'm dropping the fluid and re-filling with Gulf or
> >>> other higher quality equivalent. What seems expensive now will be cheap
> >>> once the tractor is out of warranty.
> >>>
> >>> Mike M
> >>>
> >>> On 5/21/2016 5:45 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>>> Mike:
> >>>> That TSC oil states it is a multi grace or multi Vis. I found
> somewhere
> >>>> it was a 10W30 or 40, If so, and the viscosity improvers are working
> >>>> correctly or maybe a little more concentrated, then the viscosity
> could
> >>>> be too thick at the higher heat. That 400 SUS is at 100F, while the
> >>>> others are specified at 100C, another 112 deg F higher...... I had
> >>>> this same problem with the hydrostat trans in my old JD2750 Swather.
> I
> >>>> found out later that the transmission is no longer available nor
> >>>> repairable. I had to buy a used one. The "yellow Bucket" THF I
> bought
> >>>> for $19.99 was too thick for the system. This I was told by the
> company
> >>>> rep who used to overhaul these transmissions made by Vickers. I
> bought
> >>>> John Deere Hytran that replaces the original 303 fluid. It surely
> does
> >>>> sound like your oil is overheating. You may have a good civil case
> >>>> against TSC, but chances of getting any results within our lifetime
> are
> >>>> slim and none.
> >>>>
> >>>> I had an 1155 V-8 Massey that was a good 130hp tractor, but we
> had
> >>>> some leaks in the rear lift cylinders. My Dad topped off the lift
> oil
> >>>> with a barrel of Lathe and Milling machine Way oil I had bought
> surplus
> >>>> from a retired machinist for $250. That oil was over $35/gal in a
> drum
> >>>> at the time. It had an extra stickiness. The entire hydraulic system
> >>>> turned to crap and it would barely move anything. It started leaking
> at
> >>>> every seal. My retired father was just too busy to drive 10 miles to
> >>>> buy a $25 bucket of the cheap stuff that would have worked fine.. It
> >>>> was my fault according to him because I did not hide the barrel from
> >>>> him!!!! It was marked in 4 inch letters WAY OIL ! We ended up
> >>>> selling the tractor for $2000 to the Mexican market.
> >>>>
> >>>> I use that yellow bucket stuff in my old dozers and trackhoe. I have
> >>>> noticed that if you open the bucket the additives are concentrated at
> >>>> the bottom. I try to turn the bucket over for an hour before I pour
> it
> >>>> into the tank....
> >>>>
> >>>> Cecil in OKla
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/21/2016 12:42 PM, Mike M wrote:
> >>>>> Cecil, I think you and Steve might be on to something with the
> >>>>> viscosity. I wish the Traveller brand oil would give me the
> Centistokes
> >>>>> value at 100C and I suspect I could call on Monday and find out.
> Because
> >>>>> I've noticed a lack in hydraulic power the service guy adjusted the
> >>>>> pressure to 2900 lbs, which is over the 2700 Mahindra calls for. He's
> >>>>> not concerned with that as long as the bypass isn't being tripped. I
> >>>>> think a change in oil may be in order. If the pump is hunting for
> oil it
> >>>>> could be introducing air into the system. I managed to find the Gulf
> >>>>> product at a local Autozone store of all places.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike M
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/21/2016 1:07 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>>>>> I looked up some viscosity sites, and 20w motor oil is 68
> centistokes
> >>>>>> and 30w is 100 centistokes. 57.5 would be closer to 10W motor oil
> >>>>>> which is what my old Ingersoll compressor calls for or Dexron ATF or
> >>>>>> type A transmission fluid. So, I would be thinking that the oil is
> too
> >>>>>> thick and the pump is scavenging and giving you a mixture of oil and
> >>>>>> air
> >>>>>> which can do weird things to rubber components at high pressure.
> We
> >>>>>> also do not know if this tractor works at 3000 psi or 1500
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cecil in OKla
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/21/2016 7:26 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi Mike:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When fluids are REALLY different, they can certainly eat up seals.
> >>>>>>> But the
> >>>>>>> magnitude of difference I am talking about is like the difference
> >>>>>>> between
> >>>>>>> brake fluid and petroleum-based oils. For example: DOT 3, 4,
> and
> >>>>>>> 5.1
> >>>>>>> require EPDM rubber for seals. But if EPDM sees petroleum, it
> softens
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> swells... like 25% or more. Like a frost heave, this swelling is
> >>>>>>> impossible to contain. It extrudes itself right out the glands.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For this to be the case, what came out of that TSC pail would have
> to
> >>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>> pretty wrong, is my gut feel. But someone could have really
> screwed
> >>>>>>> up at
> >>>>>>> the factory I suppose... in that case you would not be the only one
> >>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>> problems!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Is this the fluid you put in?
> >>>>>>>
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid-5-gal
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> One thing to note here is the viscosity. TSC fluid specs 400
> Saybolt
> >>>>>>> Universal Seconds (SUS or SSU) at 100F (38C). An online calculator
> >>>>>>> tells
> >>>>>>> me 400 SUS is 86.2 Centistokes. They SHOULD, but fail, to say
> >>>>>>> anything
> >>>>>>> about viscosity index and viscosity at elevated temperature 100C.
> I
> >>>>>>> then
> >>>>>>> looked up the Gulf fluid you mentioned, one that Mahindra
> specifically
> >>>>>>> calls for, and find it is 57.5 CentiStokes at 40C. Whoa. 57.5 is
> >>>>>>> pretty
> >>>>>>> different from 86.2.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not sure what to make of all this and nothing I'm saying here is
> real
> >>>>>>> definitive, just trying to shed some more light on the situation.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> SO
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So about a year ago I bought a Mahindra 4035 40 HP diesel
> tractor. I
> >>>>>>>> starts, runs and works fine, but I've had some problems with leaks
> >>>>>>>> lately. At the 100 hour mark Mahindra wanted me to change the
> >>>>>>>> hydraulic
> >>>>>>>> filter, which sits on the side of the rear housing. I talked to
> the
> >>>>>>>> service guy at the dealership and he said I'd lose about 2
> gallons of
> >>>>>>>> fluid when I did that, even with the one rear tire up on a block.
> It
> >>>>>>>> holds 10 gallons overall, and TSC had their premium universal
> >>>>>>>> hydraulic/transmission fluid on sale (which states it meets or
> exceed
> >>>>>>>> Mahindra specs) for $35 for 5 gallons. For me it seemed like a no
> >>>>>>>> brainer to just dump the fluid and replace it rather that trying
> to
> >>>>>>>> guess how much I'd lose.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Everything went fine, I had to remove a side cover as well as the
> >>>>>>>> filter
> >>>>>>>> to get to a screen they wanted to have cleaned on the first
> service
> >>>>>>>> only. After that the tractor performed as it should but after
> about
> >>>>>>>> 50
> >>>>>>>> hours I've started to develop leaks in the hydraulic system. They
> >>>>>>>> fixed
> >>>>>>>> one by a large square diverter valve under the tractor and today
> they
> >>>>>>>> are fixing another leak from the power steering block up by the
> >>>>>>>> steering
> >>>>>>>> wheel. I called today and talked to the service guy and he says
> they
> >>>>>>>> are puzzled because the leaking o-rings they are looking at today
> >>>>>>>> appear
> >>>>>>>> burned, as if exposed to excessive heat. Another concern that I
> >>>>>>>> brought
> >>>>>>>> up to them is that the loader doesn't seem to have quite the
> lifting
> >>>>>>>> capacity as when it was new.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My question is, can fluid cause these type of problems? In the
> manual
> >>>>>>>> they call our for Mahindra fluid, Gulf Universal Tractor
> Transmission
> >>>>>>>> fluid, Mobil 424, Shell Donax and a few others, all of which are
> >>>>>>>> nearly
> >>>>>>>> impossible to find. Can a fluid be SO wrong that it would cause
> >>>>>>>> problems? Right now they are looking at anything that might be
> >>>>>>>> causing a
> >>>>>>>> continual "deadheading" situation, but with that little 3 cylinder
> >>>>>>>> diesel I think I would notice that.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mike M
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
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